Gurasis Singh: 0:01

Hi, this is Gurasis Singh and you're watching my Thick Accent Podcast. Let me start with a brief history lesson. Today, so in 1984, one of the darkest chapters in modern Indian history unfolded the Sikh Genocide Following the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi. Thousands of Sikhs were brutally killed in state-sponsored violence. Mobs robed the streets, homes and businesses were set on fire and families were ripped apart overnight. The attacks weren't random. They were systematic. Voter lists and government records were used to target Sikh households, and for days, the streets of India's capital and beyond were soaked in fear and blood. Days, the streets of India's capital and beyond were soaked in fear and blood.

Gurasis Singh: 0:48

For many, this is a page in history books, but for others, like our guest today, it was lived reality. At just five years old, our guest found herself hiding in a neighbor's house while kiosks raged outside. In the midst of it all, her father couldn't escape, and he paid for it with his life. What followed was a journey of survival, of adapting to an entirely new world in Canada, while carrying the weight of grief, trauma and deeply ingrained societal expectations. From being reminded that her family didn't have a son to navigating stigmas around marriage, divorce and even raising daughters of her own. Her life has been a testament to navigating stigmas around marriage, divorce and even raising daughters of her own. Her life has been a testament to resilience, but today she stands as a woman who has healed, who has redefined her path and who is raising the next generation to break free from outdated norms. In this episode, we are diving deep into her journey, how she unlearned, healed and ultimately found the strength to say I am enough. Please welcome Jyoti Grewal.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:51

Thank you so much, Gurusheesh. That was a beautiful introduction.

Gurasis Singh: 1:56

Thank you. Thank you for being on the podcast, thank you for saying that. I know it means a lot, but pretty excited to get into your journey and unfold how you have sort of, like you know, came through and powered through everything that, how your life has been so welcome. Thank you so much. All right, jyoti. So before we get into the serious stuff, I want to start on a lighter note. This episode is part of my season two, but I'm trying to turn up the fun factor a little bit, so I'm going to start by asking you some fun questions. Okay, so tell me first, is what's your go to breakfast?

Jyoti Grewal: 2:34

I start with a protein shake, believe it or not, okay. So all the veggies, the yogurt, I'm trying in this era of my life, to look after myself, not only mentally but also physically.

Gurasis Singh: 2:46

So, yeah, that's my breakfast. I love that, and share a favorite song or a dialogue or a movie and tell us why it's significant to you.

Jyoti Grewal: 2:56

Hmm, you know, I think the movie is a Hindi movie. I think it was called Kaal, but don't quote me on that because I might have misused the name, but in there it was an Ajay Devga movie and sort of about. It was based on societal issues and in that movie he said basically that animals can even understand their own pain. What is the difference? That humans only feel their own pain and not others, right? So that to me is a simple idea, but it speaks so well in all the different things that unfold in society is that if we only felt others' pain like we feel our own, I think the world would be a better place.

Gurasis Singh: 3:41

Wow, such a profound interpretation of it. I love that. Yeah, okay. So next is if you had to teach one phrase or something in your mother tongue, what would it be and what does it mean?

Jyoti Grewal: 3:54

Oh, that's so interesting. One phrase in my mother tongue, mannima matuchi. And how would you translate that? Oh, wow, I have it tattooed on both of my wrists and essentially, a lot of people ask me about it. Right, because they see it's on the wrist, it's obvious, and for me it's, you know, roughly translated. It's in in the sikardas, the, the prayer that we do at the end of every, you know, prayer ceremony, and it's like a path to guidance Keep your mind humble, keep your mind humble, stay in humility, but keep your thoughts and morals high.

Jyoti Grewal: 4:33

So, that's something I think because it's tattooed on me. People get asked off. That way, it spreads out to the world and those that I come in contact with. It's something for them to think about.

Gurasis Singh: 4:50

I like that. Yes, you know, in my case it's always my name, you know, because it's not something people have heard about different variations of Punjabi names. You know Manpreet, harpreet and all that, but maybe Gurusis was something new to them. So I have always been questioned okay, what does it mean? You know, what does it symbolize, or so to say. And maybe initially I never thought about it, but now I am. It's so much like ingrained in me now how to say that, how to communicate that, so I always like ask that question as well.

Jyoti Grewal: 5:15

Yeah, yeah, me too. I mean Jyoti is is maybe not as unique as Godasis, but it's a name that people often haven't heard, and so it makes you kind of stop and appreciate where you were named and and the meaning behind it and kind of it's funny names can often dictate how we walk our path. That sort of follows in with you as well. But yeah, for me too it's like light. Okay, how do I walk this world? Shedding some light, leaving some light behind.

Gurasis Singh: 5:43

Right For sure, yeah, your world shedding some light, leaving some light behind? Right for sure, yeah. Your life, your path has been like that, where you have ignited or enlightened, you know various uh, paths of. I would say like even for your children also, you know you're doing the same thing, lighting the path for them. We'll get into that. But last question in this segment if you could teleport back to a particular place for a day, where would you go and what would you do?

Jyoti Grewal: 6:04

I have a job, so I just recently went to punjab in uh january and uh I would be there sipping my you know 25th cup of cha, the oven, the homemade chula and and just sitting there in the most simplicity and having great conversations with the elderly family, that simple bonding is that's my happy place.

Gurasis Singh: 6:31

Absolutely All the happiness is in the simplest things, for sure. So, speaking of that, I want to take you back to the time you spent in India. I'm talking about your formative years. Tell us anything that you can share about the time before 1984. Before 1984.

Jyoti Grewal: 6:50

The unfortunate thing is and I do think it has to do with our our body and brain trying to protect us. So I don't have a ton of memories. The ones I do have there, I call them dreams. They're like in a dreamlike state, so they're not very solid. They're floating images and I sometimes question myself. I call them dreams.

Jyoti Grewal: 7:08

They're like in a dreamlike state, so they're not very solid, they're floating images and I sometimes question myself like did that even happen, or did I just, you know, make it up through Bollywood movies or something like this? I sometimes confirm with my mom, like I have this memory, you know that we I was up high on my dad's shoulder and there was a wedding, a ceremony, but it was dark, and traditional Sikh weddings happen in the light right so what is that memory about?

Jyoti Grewal: 7:29

mom? And she will say that, yeah, you did. You went to a Hindu marriage ceremony which happened, you know, when it was darker. So those kinds of memories are few and far between, but, yeah, that's one core memory that I have is of this wedding and because I was in the highest spot, on my dad's shoulders, watching this wedding happen um that's sort of a core memory that I have from my time there okay, and was that the stigma around you know, uh, having daughters in the house and no child.

Gurasis Singh: 7:59

was that also sort of introduced to you back then? If you, or maybe it was told to you by your parents?

Jyoti Grewal: 8:04

No, so my dad was actually an educated man of the times in the 70s and 80s. So at that point it was just me and my younger sister, who was two and a half years younger. So when my dad was alive during that time in India, he was the father of two daughters, and it was actually my mom that wanted a son, right, that wanted to try again for another child so that she would be able to give us a brother.

Jyoti Grewal: 8:28

But my dad would always say I'm happy I've got two girls, and he did some foreshadowing in the future because he would say I want the older one to be a teacher and the younger one to be a nurse, and those are the careers that me and my sister are in actually at the moment. So I didn't remember any of that touching me during that time.

Gurasis Singh: 8:47

Okay, and also, is there something about maybe India or Punjab that you would like to?

Jyoti Grewal: 8:59

share with people that people might not know the beauty. I think when people are fed through media there's a lot of misconception about poverty, about people being uneducated, women's rights, that kind of a thing, and then just actually the physical landscape of the country right. So when I went to India, I've got tons of pictures of the beautiful green farms, the water, the animals and then the way that people actually bask in simplicity, like you had mentioned earlier.

Jyoti Grewal: 9:36

So, I would take pictures of you know five or six elderly men just hanging out for two or three hours touching up on their day. And same thing for women in different spots in life, and just the pace of life and the relationship building. That happens because we have time to stand and have a conversation.

Jyoti Grewal: 9:57

People are not constantly watching their you know, their phone for oh, I have to be here or there's a meeting. The time to have deep relationships and appreciate the beauty. So going in for a walk every day in those beautiful green fields, that's a core memory and I think if you went back to Punjab and experienced that, your narrative would change of what you consume through media, to be India or what a Punjabi family is, or the experience of being in that world is right.

Gurasis Singh: 10:28

So absolutely yeah. Until unless it's not lived, you would never be able to really understand the depth of it and the feeling of it. Because once you are in those farmland, you know, you really genuinely forget about your phone. You are so much immersed in the air in the air and so much relaxed you feel, you know, just being there. You don't want to do anything, you just want to sit and lie down sometimes there, you know yeah, the sunsets are like so much more vivid, and the sun rises and and then you can hear the nature right, the birds and and the peacocks in the air, and it's just, it's beautiful and you just, it literally catches your breath.

Gurasis Singh: 11:07

Yeah, absolutely yeah. All right, I'm getting into the nostalgia of it, but moving on, moving on Time to book a trip right. Yeah, I actually just came back like two months ago so so it's very fresh for me, so I think I'll get more into the feeling of it like going back again. You know, so it's hard to get over. I'm still on the recovering phase, so okay. So moving on, you know, obviously, tell us about the events of October 984. And you know how it impacted your family, your life at such a young age.

Jyoti Grewal: 11:42

Tell me about that so you gave a bit of the history lesson and, and no matter how many times I talk about this story, it still, it still shakes you up a bit. Right. Your stomach turns, especially if you have lived in living experiences. Like you said, it's not something that's just in the history books. You turn the the next page, move on. You know this is something that is a part of my life each and every day.

Jyoti Grewal: 12:07

So in 1984, for some listeners we had Operation Blue Star in India, which was, you know, indira Gandhi was the prime minister at that time. There was political upheaval happening between opposing parties wanting something different and, um, her troops, let's say militia, stormed into the golden temple and lots of innocent praying people who were there for religious purposes men, women, children died, um, and so that was sort of where it started in 1984. And when I I talked to my mom she talks about my dad, you know like, and her members of her family sitting around and listening to this and saying why is this happening? Because those people that were in the Golden Temple at that time they were innocent, they were there for religious purposes right and to lose their life.

Jyoti Grewal: 13:05

And some jumped into wells because to escape the gunshots.

Jyoti Grewal: 13:09

And there was no respect done in terms of you don't go into a gurdwara without your head covered, without taking your shoes off. So just the whole the suspect yeah, it was just so. It touched, I think, sikhs all around the world and, of course, our family as well. And what happened a couple months following that sort of traumatic event was two of Indra Gandhi's bodyguards were sick, so they assassinated her in retaliation for this, and that just opened up this whole can of horrific events that basically unfolded overnight. And we hear about the Delhi riots.

Jyoti Grewal: 13:55

My family was living in Madhya Pradesh at that time. My dad had a very successful trucking business there, so we were one of the few Punjabi Sikh families that were living there, and I think you mentioned in your introduction that it was systematic because Sikh families were targeted, so we lived amongst and again, I don't remember a lot of it, it's basically from information my mom, who was in her 20s at that time, shared and essentially my dad had come home for lunch and I do remember stirrings as a kid, you feel the energy in the house shift as a five-year-old thinking something is up, like people are upset about something but not understanding, and now, of course, through conversations with my mom. It was my dad saying look what happened.

Gurasis Singh: 14:44

You know, Indira.

Jyoti Grewal: 14:44

Gandhi is dead and there's all of these riots that are happening, and then basically we became a target of those riots as well. So our house, people started throwing rocks and we were a joint family. So my grandparents, my dad's younger brother, my uncle, two of us sisters, my mom we all live together and my dad basically shifted us to the next door neighbors who were of Hindu religion. So that's where the discrepancy in humanity is. You can't label everybody that is of Hindu religion as a bad person. Because of them.

Jyoti Grewal: 15:21

I'm here today. My sister is alive, my mom is alive, my grandparents are alive. My mom is alive, my grandparents are alive. They essentially hit us and my memory of that day is just being underneath their bed and not understanding. Lots of confusion in my little brain, you know. I remember poking my head up and I just remember my mom hitting me on the back of my head, say get back under the bed. But what I saw in that very brief moment there was a window right in front of us is my dad on top of our roof of our house, and he had just gotten hit by a rock that people were throwing, and so he took off his. He was wearing an undershirt. He was relaxing at home for lunch and he took off his undershirt and he just was holding it on his forehead to stop the bleeding and then I was shoved under the bed again.

Jyoti Grewal: 16:06

So, when you talk about core memories, that's a core memory, and then anything after that is through my mom's eyes. That I remember or I'm told. I have newspaper clippings of what our house looked like. There was so much rubble thrown that there's no space left. The house was burnt, basically, and my dad refused to hide and my uncle refused to hide, so they were up there fighting against I don't know how many numbers of mobs. Then eventually, we made our way back to Punjab. We didn't live in Madhya Pradesh again specifically my mom and us because it was just too traumatic for her to go back. But my grandparents and my uncle continued the business there and we lived in Punjab. They're running. So yeah, that's a brief synopsis through my my five year old eyes at that time it's, um, it's such a I can't even like fathom how that five-year-old must be feeling.

Gurasis Singh: 17:08

You know, um, like you said, you can really feel the energy in the room and the stirrings happening around and we I mean now you are at a position where you can actually deflect and talk about it but I think a lot of trauma, a lot of things were sort of immersed or sort of absorbed by that five-year-old at that tender age. Right, and you know, I want to ask you, like, following that you were telling me briefly in our previous introduction also, that the life became very, very hard after that, right, and after your father's passing, your there were lack of support to our, to your mother, to be financial, emotional, and always a man has to accompany them, no matter what the decision they want to make in their life.

Jyoti Grewal: 17:59

Right, talk a little bit about that as well yeah, um, so we were two sisters, like I had mentioned earlier, and when my dad died I'm not going to say passed away, I know that's the the the soft way of saying it but he didn't pass away, it wasn't his, it wasn't due to an illness that he was struggling with that.

Jyoti Grewal: 18:21

He was killed right um. So when he, my mom was pregnant with our youngest sister. She was about three months pregnant. So after his death she had a third daughter. My youngest sister was born and that event itself like my mom talks about. When my youngest sister was born, they lied to her, her family members, and said, oh, the baby didn't survive Because they said she wouldn't be able to deal with the trauma of having another daughter having just recently lost her husband and somehow everyone thought that my dad was going to come back in the form of this third baby that it was

Jyoti Grewal: 18:58

only right for that to happen. So the hopes were high that the third child would be a son. And when that didn't happen, but my mom says you know, even in the hospital, when they were telling me this baby had passed away, I said give her to me. She knew it was a daughter. And she said I actually felt so much love for that child that she's very protective of my sister to this day because that was like my dad's last gift to our family. Was this baby right? So that sort of kind of tells you what she was dealing with in terms of society in the 80s. You know the role of a son and how another daughter, yet another daughter, was considered. Oh no, like.

Jyoti Grewal: 19:44

I just God hate us that he gave us another daughter. He could have spared her and given her a son for all of the pain of losing her husband. So that narrative kind of continued on with all of our lives, with my mom, with my sisters, of like hearing oh, you're three girls. Such a burden, a burden, uh, to be one of three girls. We have to marry you, right? I know that there's, uh, there's sayings like having a daughter is like watering another man's garden because she doesn't stay yours, which, now, this is something that really, um, makes my stomach turn when I hear that as a mother of two daughters.

Jyoti Grewal: 20:22

Right, they are nobody's garden, they're not a possession to be had. So the narrative of that, you know, my mom had a graded education. She wasn't able to support herself by being employed, that kind of a thing. So lost. Her husband had three daughters.

Jyoti Grewal: 20:39

So that was kind of the reason that when my adoption came up, my dad's aunt wanted to adopt me. It was sort of like helpful to her to have one less mouth to feed, one less responsibility, although then there was also that tug inside of her of giving up her child right After very recently losing her husband. So there was a lot of upheaval in her life at a very young age she was only about 26 at that time. But yeah, so I came to Canada at the age of seven and you know I lived with my aunt and uncle, my dad's brother and my dad's sister and brother-in-law, and my mom raised my two younger sisters in India.

Jyoti Grewal: 21:21

Through this patriarchal society that was made her dependent on anybody else to usually a male figure. So that ended up being her brother, my uncle, who is like a father figure in our lives because he sort of took on that role, whether it was registering, you know us into a school or going to get groceries or any type of event that that involved leaving the house, basically to conduct business in society. You needed a male to accompany you for it to be okay, because women at that time didn't really go out and do things independently.

Gurasis Singh: 21:56

You know, I just want to share a personal story here. So I'm the youngest in the family here, so I'm the youngest of my uh. In the family I have two elder sisters and they are a decade older than me, both of them 10 and 11. 10 and 8, sorry. And at that time I heard it from my sisters and I heard it from my mother as well, that everybody wanted me to have a son.

Gurasis Singh: 22:19

You know, and it was such a big conversation in the 90s, 80s as well, and you know the if I sometimes I think about it and and I see that look at me today, I, being a son, I'm here in Canada and if anything happens to my parents ever, you know, whether they were sick or something like that my sisters are always the first one to go and run and really be with them. Look at the irony of things here. You know, craving for that son, having that son, this mentality deep rooted in our society. Yes, things are changing, but I think there's still a long way to go, especially in some of the rural sections of the society in India and to some extent even in the urban section. I see those conversations happening very like hush-hush, but they do happen. They do happen and I really hope that these things change, and I do reflect upon that a couple of times.

Gurasis Singh: 23:19

You know, throughout my journey here in Canada, that look at me, that there were times it's going to be seven years for me and my father has been sick a couple of times. My mother has been sick and my sisters were the first one to run and go help them, you know, or be with them. So, yeah, this is the um. I don't even know how to like put this in words, but this is such a such a, such a like a personal um anecdote I'm sharing here, which I might have not before. Just because you were sharing such a vulnerable side to yourself, I could not stop myself from sharing that. Don't really run after this orthodox thinking. It's time to go past that.

Jyoti Grewal: 23:54

Yeah, yeah thank you for sharing and I think, uh, voices like yours are important, voices of sons are important to say, hey, a son is not the end-all, be-all, um, and daughters are capable. Just Voices of sons are important to say, hey, a son is not the end, all be all.

Jyoti Grewal: 24:04

And daughters are just as capable of taking care of parents. And, like I sometimes sit and reflect on this and I think, okay, in past generations maybe I can understand this need because a daughter got married, moved into her in-laws home to take care of them, and you know that's, that was her purpose. And then if you had a son and you know that's that was her purpose, and then if you had a son some other you know woman, somebody else's daughter would come and take care of your family. So I understand why in the past it was necessary, because it was sort of your old age plan and that kind of a thing. But things are different now. Women are educated and there's no longer this pressure of being owned by somebody. Like your husband's family doesn't own you and really neither do your parents. It should come from the heart and this unfair thing of like having a right over a son but not a right over a daughter.

Jyoti Grewal: 24:58

I know there's songs that are still sung today, right? New songs come out and it's all about the daughter's role versus the son's role, and that keeps perpetuating the same myth to the next generation again right. So I think we talk the talk, but we don't walk the walk. Yeah, true so people like to say these things there's no difference.

Gurasis Singh: 25:21

I mean I've heard it in many different circles there's no difference between boys and girls, but when it comes to reality, people want a son in our culture, absolutely yeah yeah, there's only a few, I think that really truly are okay with just having daughters and then right yeah, absolutely.

Gurasis Singh: 25:40

Um, okay, I just wanna now pivot towards your journey to canada, and you were seven, I believe you know, when you came with your aunt to canada. Tell us, do you have any recollection of your initial days, let's just say like initial years? You know how was it like just coming here and do you remember any culture, shocks, language, how, how was that handling that?

Jyoti Grewal: 26:03

Yeah, so I actually came with a friend of my aunt's. My aunt and uncle were in Canada so back in the 80s this was in 87, there weren't a lot of people that would. It wasn't like as much of a norm for people to go to, you know these Commonwealth countries. So I guess the family found this friend of my aunt's who lived happened to live in the same town in BC and I was booked a ticket to go with her and I remember being outside of the airport asking my mom where am I going? And she said you're going to visit your aunt, you're going to her bin.

Jyoti Grewal: 26:41

You're going to her village, and so it was made in my mind to sound like just a short trip. I'll be back in a week or two, right? So that was sort of the first lie, and I know why why my mom did it.

Jyoti Grewal: 26:54

It was just to make it a bit softer on on me and probably on her as well, although my innocent mind protected me right. I had the shroud of childhood to protect me from a lot of the things. But she didn't have that, so she suffered far greater in those years, I would say, than I did. Just because I was a kid, I was distracted easily. I went on with my life. Of course I missed her, but I was also very young, so I became immersed in my new life here and some of that was at the very initial stages.

Jyoti Grewal: 27:27

I went to an English medium school in India, but it still was a struggle when I came here to understand. So I took some tutoring, but because as children they're like sponges, you can absorb the language really, really quickly. I didn't struggle too much for too long, maybe just a couple of months, and then I was into the speaking and having friends and that kind of a thing. But it was a rural farming town and so there weren't a lot of people that looked like me. We had Indigenous peoples and then we had white folks, folks, and then there was just me and one other cousin that were the brown kids in my class, right.

Jyoti Grewal: 28:07

So there was some racism um, you know that happened and there was some othering that happened at a very young age, um, so I have some, some memories of that. And then, just also trying to navigate the East and West boats, I always say like I felt like I had my foot in one in each boat, the home world, where it was very you know, the Punjabi culture, food, dress, all of this and then when you left at school, that was a different world, and so you're trying to find yourself in between both of those.

Gurasis Singh: 28:41

Yeah, and where was it? Where in Canada?

Jyoti Grewal: 28:45

In BC, so in the okanagan.

Gurasis Singh: 28:46

Okay, I see, yeah, and I was your high school, like you know. You told spoke briefly about racism and othering and everything. Yeah, do you have any vivid incidents that you can share with us?

Jyoti Grewal: 28:59

um, I think it was not one specific incident. It was was sort of you know, when there's the in group and the out group, you just know that you are not part of quote unquote the norm. You are part of the other group. You dress differently. So you know, I wasn't up on the trends of clothing that the other kids were wearing and sometimes I wasn't allowed. When all the other kids would go to the movies, I wasn't allowed to go to the movies.

Jyoti Grewal: 29:27

So, I grew up in a quite a strict household and then part of that was being a girl. Girls aren't supposed to go out, girls aren't supposed to do this, they're not supposed to do that. Be in the kitchen, learn how to make food. You have to serve your in-laws, so that sort of mentality. And then also, when I had friends who were not Punjabi or Indian, I, in order to survive, I would just lie to them about why I couldn't have a sleepover, about why I couldn't go see the movies, have a boyfriend, all of this stuff.

Jyoti Grewal: 29:59

I just made up stories because in that time I guess that was my best defense mechanism is I was too ashamed of telling them the truth, that I'm not allowed to do this. This is not okay in my culture. So there was that kind of a thing. And then, just like my formal name, I went by my formal name Sukjit in schools. And just the teacher's reactions to my name every time they would come across it in the attendance list. You know they would make that. I call it a constipated face when they came to my name because it was like what do I do with this?

Gurasis Singh: 30:35

And.

Jyoti Grewal: 30:35

I was so embarrassed I would just put up my hand because I knew it was my name that they were getting stuck on Every single class, every new teacher, year after year after year. So it was that sort of like covert forms of othering that.

Jyoti Grewal: 30:51

I recall where it was like sending me messages all the time that you're different, you're not like the norm, there's something weird about you and you start to, after a while, believe some of those things. In my first couple of jobs I actually wore a name tag that said jody on it, j-o-d because I just was tired of people mispronouncing my name and I gave in to that, that narrative that was out there.

Gurasis Singh: 31:16

So what's the worst pronunciation you have heard of? Uh?

Jyoti Grewal: 31:22

oh, um, so I don't know. I don't know. Maybe that's like more my daddy's impression, but it was just butchered. Now, jyoti, I've heard goatee and someone expecting a japanese person I, and so that was referred to me um, or coyote is another one that's hilarious yeah, and it was just always kind of makes you cringe and laugh at the same time. It's like just ask me you, you know you have a capability to pronounce such hard things like fettuccine, alfredo and tchaikovsky and all of these other chalamet.

Jyoti Grewal: 32:01

You know you can say that yeah, it's like j like Jyoti is not. It's like now. I just say I don't expect you to learn my language in order to, you know, make your tongue turn a certain way. But if you even get close, I appreciate that. Yeah so if you can't say Jyoti, a lot of people call me Jyoti. That's fine.

Gurasis Singh: 32:18

I think it's about seeing the intention it's coming from, but they're actually making an effort to learn it or ask you for it, or they're just like just ignoring it.

Jyoti Grewal: 32:28

Yeah, yeah. It's like now. I feel unseen, Like where am I in this conversation? Because you've just taken away from me that word that I've heard the most since birth Absolutely.

Gurasis Singh: 32:40

It's my identity.

Jyoti Grewal: 32:41

And if you don't say that, well then, birth, it's my identity, and if you don't say that, well then, what else about me?

Gurasis Singh: 32:47

do you respect and honor? Yeah, totally, you know. You mentioned about the racism thing. I think what I'm understanding it was more of like an underlying factor that wasn't direct on your face but you could really understand. Okay, something is coming my way, you know, and it's not something which I'm feeling good about. Tell me you know. I often not something which I'm feeling good about. Um, tell me, you know, uh, I often have the discussion on the podcast with first generation of immigrants and since you sort of lived like the similar life yes, you were born in India, but you were a very young age when you came to Canada and living here as well.

Gurasis Singh: 33:16

They always tell me that, you know, there was always this alteration between living a life outside of the house and then coming back to the house, like I remember once one person said that outside I was, uh, you know, like a certain canadian, I am native, but then I come back to my house and then I'm again like punjabi and I'm again indian and I'm sort of, like you know, switching between these two personalities. Did you at any point have that sort of like switching personalities? That, okay, where do I actually belong? Who is jyoti? Did you at any point have that sort of like switching personalities that, okay, where do I actually belong, who is jyoti? Did you ever question that?

Jyoti Grewal: 33:48

absolutely, I actually had a physical change. So when I came into the house I would change into a suit. Okay, so I physically put on my punjabiness right um, as soon as I, I stepped above the threshold. So when you're talking about this, I just thought, yeah for sure, I had a very clear distinction. Pants are for outside the house. Inside the house, you wear a punjabi suit. Um, so I physically would change.

Jyoti Grewal: 34:16

And that was my evening weekend attire at home which then you speaks into the language you speak at home, the food you eat, what is okay and not okay. And then outside you know, you put on your pants, take off your suit, and now you're, you're talking like them and and you're having similar experiences and really trying hard to fit in, and the best analogy I can think of is trying to put a square peg into a round hole, where you're constantly trying to make these identities align and they never quite do, nor inside nor outside the house. So now I think I've tried to create this third middle ground of life for myself, where I pick and choose pieces of both worlds that feel right to me and they're they I'm. I won't say they're right for everybody, but it's. It's what is my truth and what.

Jyoti Grewal: 35:11

I've decided to embrace based on my experiences.

Gurasis Singh: 35:15

Um, and it just felt sometimes like there were there were such opposing odds um that it was crushing to be in the middle of that, yeah, and did you ever speak about it to somebody in the house, or just a friend or somebody, anybody, you know, maybe somebody in India?

Jyoti Grewal: 35:32

Yeah, no, I didn't. I didn't see my family until I was basically an adult, like I was done my university education. I did go back when I was 10 for two years and then I came back at, I think, 12 and a half 13. Then I didn't go back until I was done university. So keep in mind that I didn't grow up with my mom and my sister, so I didn't have a relationship with them.

Jyoti Grewal: 35:57

And then here as well, I was in a household where children are to be seen and not heard. I was in a household where children are to be seen and not heard, so that was sort of the narrative there.

Jyoti Grewal: 36:07

So the short answer is no, I didn't start speaking about it probably until I was in university and just having exposure to other people's ways of living and realizing wait a minute, this life that I've been living is not quite it. There's other ways to live, and recognizing that, so yeah, of course, now I speak about it very very openly of course but yeah you know the line that you said, that the children in the house are seen and not heard.

Gurasis Singh: 36:35

It just hit me because it's the reality of so many households and I would say, like the indian households, right yeah, possibly immigrant households, because I hear this I've worked in over two decades with, uh, with immigrants from all over the world, and that seems to be the way like children, you respect your elders.

Jyoti Grewal: 36:55

You don't talk back, you don't question anything, you do as you're told. Absolutely it's. It's like a one-way street and, um, that always has felt a little bit like. But I'm a person too. As a child I've even felt that I have opinions and and why can't I question anything? And even if you did it in the most polite way, it was still taken as you're being rude.

Gurasis Singh: 37:19

You're questioning the authority of parents or elders, so yeah, you know, along with all this that you have just told us, you know, was there at any way the weight of carrying your past that came into the picture in, in my childhood specifically, or or up until this day and time I would say up until the time where you were building a life in canada initial years initial years, yeah, um, even within the community.

Jyoti Grewal: 37:53

Uh, people would look at me and and know, uh, it was almost with that. I heard the word bachari a lot in my childhood and that means poor one right A poor thing, poor little one or poor girl rough translation and that sort of was my story Poor thing, she lost her dad was killed. She doesn't have a brother, she doesn't have a father. Now she's living here, you know, with her aunt and uncle, and I didn't feel like a bajadi right.

Jyoti Grewal: 38:27

So that's still one of my let's call it trigger words is don't victimize me If something happens to me. I don't control that.

Gurasis Singh: 38:36

Absolutely.

Jyoti Grewal: 38:37

And it's not my identity happens to me. I don't control that Absolutely and it's not my identity. So, yes, you know, I, my family, was victimized by the 1984 riots. But we are also more than that, right, complete people who are living full lives. We are, you know, happy, and of course this, this tragedy, is always with us. But it shouldn't define us as, as that's, the family, the 1984 family. So that's where my past, I would say it's less so now. But growing up small town uh, that was I. I could hear murmurings. You know, you go to the gordoada, you hear people and you can feel eyes staring at you, even behind your head, and you know that that's, that's what they're thinking and that's your definition. In their eyes.

Gurasis Singh: 39:20

You can't really be anything more than that, yeah, it becomes sort of like your identity. You know this is what this person is like, um. On another note, I just want to know did you pursue any hobbies growing up in canada? Um no not really okay is cleaning a hobby that's a that's like a necessity, I don't know. You're just forced to do that, you know yeah, I think that's, that's my hobby.

Jyoti Grewal: 39:47

I think even now, um, I'm a clean freak, and maybe because it was such a strict household that you're not allowed to leave.

Jyoti Grewal: 39:55

Uh, I just cleaned and so up until this day I've reflected on it many times is that I keep my house meticulous. Some people will come and say it looks like a show home. I do even live here, and I think it goes back to when you can't control other things in life. Cleaning was one thing that helped me control something. So I would say even now it impacts my mental health when the house is dirty, things are not organized. Yeah, it's really interesting, right, so was it? Was that a hobby? I guess that was my hobby, because that's what I did with my spare time, studying and cleaning.

Gurasis Singh: 40:31

Okay, so I'm also a little bit like you. I'm not diagnosed with OCD, but I think I have that like a minor. Yeah, you know, I just curious about one OCD, but I think I have that like a minor. Yeah, you know, I was curious about one more thing. You know, since you did have, like your, your obviously your aunt is Punjabi and you were surrounded by a lot of Indian Punjabi families as well. How would you say the culture apart from this, you know orthodox thinking, patriarchal thinking, it impacted you. I'm talking about the songs and the music and you know how did that sort of uh impacted your upbringing yeah, it was definitely a big part of my life.

Jyoti Grewal: 41:08

We had, uh, so I mentioned I went back to india for a couple of years and so I learned how to read and write finjabi.

Jyoti Grewal: 41:15

Okay, and then when I came back we would have I think the newspaper was called Indo-Canadian Times that was delivered and I made the effort to read it because I wanted to stay on top of Punjabi, you know, like to know how to read and write it and I still can fluently but also like movies were a big part, or attending functions where dance and all of that was we had. My uncle was into hosting singers, so we had, like you know, Muhammad Sadiq Ranjit Gar living at our house whenever they would do a show in Canada.

Jyoti Grewal: 41:53

So I have pictures of myself as a, as a young child, hanging out with them, you know. So music is a big part of my life today. I love to dance, I love Gita, I love Bhangra, so I've made the effort to learn all the folk songs. Whenever I went back to India I'd be singing about things that I, and then people would joke you've never seen these things, but you're seeing it as if you've lived the life here. But it was just. I love those pieces of our culture and I've embraced them. I still do it to this point, and both my daughters are in Gita and Fangra as well.

Jyoti Grewal: 42:28

So just passing on the beauty and the fun and the connection that is a part of our culture.

Gurasis Singh: 42:36

Okay, you know, since you mentioned your daughters, I want to talk very briefly about you know your marriage and also, like, from there on, you got on to your healing journey. You know, following your divorce, right, and this one question I have for you is tell me that what were some of the expectations placed on you as a daughter that you realized later you needed to unlearn? Tell me about that.

Jyoti Grewal: 43:07

This whole being somebody else's property, and those words weren't used. But that was the message. You learn to cook because your duty is to serve others. And it wasn't serving in a nice way, it wasn't like a seva way, it was more of a submissive way.

Gurasis Singh: 43:27

Sort of.

Jyoti Grewal: 43:28

Yeah, yeah, like you ask for permission, you know, don't do this. And a lot of things got whenever I asked can I do this after you're married? Can I go here after you're married? Can I go here after you're married? So your freedom became linked to a man, this unknown face, somewhere in your future from a very young age. And then I do believe that even today, girls will often, sometimes marry young, end up marrying the wrong person because they're really hungering for that freedom that parents don't give while they're in there under their roof, and that is unfortunate.

Jyoti Grewal: 44:07

I think it ends up in girls marrying for the wrong reason, just to get out, just to have a little bit of fresh air, and then that often means you go from a ditch into a well right Because you don't get what you need when you're with your parents. And then that often means you go from a ditch into a well right Because you don't. You don't get what you need when you're with your parents, and that, I think, is a parent's job, is you're not raising someone's daughter in law, you're raising your child, leave it there and the values come right. So that's sort of been part of my own reflective journey is like why was I told all of these things? Why wasn't I taught that I need to learn to cook so I could feed my own self, not to feed this future family Right, which is then. There's nothing wrong with that, but the reasons that you do it should be clear should be clear.

Gurasis Singh: 45:03

I see, and talk a little bit about your daughters also, right, Since you are sort of instilling that a different version of reality to them which was not told to you growing up, you know, and also since you remarried after that, you know there were certain stigmas around that as well. Tell me about the kind of resistance that you face were certain stigmas around that as well.

Jyoti Grewal: 45:20

Tell me about the kind of resistance that you face. I would say resistance. I stayed in my first marriage it was to a Punjabi man because of the messaging that I had received in my own life. You know, you marry and it's for life, and you leave your husband's home, on your, on your deathbed kind of thing.

Jyoti Grewal: 45:39

Like that was sort of the narrative and that's it's for life and I agree with it to a certain extent, but it depends on what that married life looks like. Is it at the risk of your mental health, your physical, emotional, financial, all of that well-being, what are you giving? And so for me was you know, looking at my two daughters and saying what is the message my life will send to them? And I didn't want to be a hypocrite.

Jyoti Grewal: 46:06

So I couldn't tell them to do something that I hadn't done, that I didn't have the guts to do. So that sort of became the flame for me is I'm not going to be a liar in their eyes. I'm going to do something that I stand by, that I've done. I'm going to go through the fire and if tomorrow they need to go through the fire, then they know that here's somebody who has that lived experience of it. So a lot of it was, I would say I, the things that I expected. I expected my family not to understand, but they were amazing. My, my family was like why didn't you tell us anything years?

Gurasis Singh: 46:39

ago.

Jyoti Grewal: 46:41

They were 150% on board. So it was more my own misconceptions based on societal input that I had had all of these years, that I was actually kind of surprised to have my own small family support Now in terms of wider society. Sure, people make assumptions and it's usually the woman that is. She probably didn't try as hard enough, or I can't believe she's doing this At this point in her life. She's not thinking about her kids, she's being selfish.

Jyoti Grewal: 47:13

That narrative of just like suck it up it's you know, the man will change after a certain amount of time or with old age, and it's a short life, but it's a long life. When you're you're with the wrong person and if you're feeling you know a certain way every day, that time is not that short. And then what happens to yourself? You lose yourself. So I didn't know who I was, and it's taken time to find out who I am without these layers of other people, people's expectations around me.

Gurasis Singh: 47:49

You know, one of my guests was talking about a similar struggle as yours and she used this line called. She said I don't want to be a footnote in someone else's story and I love that, yeah that's beautiful.

Jyoti Grewal: 48:04

Yeah, I love quotes, so if we talk long enough, I'm sure I'll throw in some other quotes in there, whether they're Punjabi or English. But it's basically realizing that that part of your story has a comma behind it, not a period. It's going to continue Right, and in my mind it had a period that it was done. This is it. I made a decision now till death, do us apart, and that was it Right. So, also recognizing it's a comma, you have life ahead of this. This is only one chapter.

Gurasis Singh: 48:37

You can start the second chapter after this horrible thing that's happened like there was a lack of safe space for you to talk about your doubts and your curiosities and your sort of like questions that you had right.

Jyoti Grewal: 49:05

Absolutely yeah, and this is something that my daughter, my oldest daughter, asked me. She was probably 12 or 13. And even in her young mind at that time she asked me one day Mama, it must have been really hard for you. I don't see, like, in our gatherings and stuff, I don't see a lot of people like you that are divorced. How hard was it for you? Because she's right, and many of our circles and our gatherings and family, friends and stuff, I'm the anomaly. And for her to recognize that as a at a young age, says something as well, that it's that obvious the precedent set for us to follow that as a at a young age, uh, says something as well that it's that obvious the the precedent set for us to follow, that you suffer in silence, you suffer behind closed doors and you put on this happy face, um, and keep going, because it's all about keeping up that, that appearance yeah, for others, yeah.

Gurasis Singh: 49:54

I think that observation also spoke about your upbringing and the kind of morals and principles you are instilling in them. You, you know. So hats off to you, jyoti. I love that.

Jyoti Grewal: 50:03

Thank you, thank you so much. That is one of my biggest tasks in life is to be a good mother and to pass on generational healing and not generational trauma. No-transcript a blanket statement that every single person is going through this so to anybody listening as well.

Jyoti Grewal: 50:57

This is not me painting our culture with a negative brush, but there is a pattern. If you really stand and reflect, there is a pattern, the messaging. Just listen to the top five songs that are out there today and you'll notice a theme and they're telling women where their value is and men where their value is right. Women where their value is and men where their value is Right.

Jyoti Grewal: 51:24

So I think it takes a lot to unpeel that onion of you know and you're somewhere deep in the core there and to realize you might not even know who you are because you've been told by society this is your expectation, you're going to do this and this X, y and Z and then after that you get married, you have kids and it would be great if one of them is a boy and then you know you go on, you have a career, but the career should accommodate the family and you still should be able to be happy at the end of the day and cook and clean and take care of your in-laws and all of this stuff.

Jyoti Grewal: 52:00

So there's this, if you look at it, in checkboxes. There's an extensive checkboxes where when it comes to women versus males in our culture, and so that would be my message is to think, sit and think about what have I been told and what is the truth. Because our way of life is not the only way of life, and that's the beauty of living in a place like Canada, because you get to see other ways of life and then you get to shed some light into your dim corners of your mind to say, wait a minute, women here are not living like this or in this particular one or my colleague, and they're happy, they're content colleague and they're happy, they're content.

Jyoti Grewal: 52:42

So what's going on to shake some of that and to to demand respect for yourself? I think it's kind of like layers of brick being piled on us over and over again and we just sort of cower under the burden. But I think if you stand up a little bit you might see a different view and I think, pick and choose what is important to you, and I'm not saying throw out, you know everything that is there. There's so much beauty there. But I think the pieces that ask you to reduce your light question those. Your light is not meant to be reduced, you're meant to shine. You were sent here on this earth. You're given this one beautiful life. What do you want to leave with? What do you want this world to leave with that? You've made really round rotis, or what right?

Gurasis Singh: 53:27

yeah, wow, so so inspiring and I love that you said that question the pieces that really stop you from shining bright. You know, I love that. I really hope this instill that confidence and encouragement in people listening to this. So, and if anybody wants to reach out to you, jyoti, can they reach out to you, just have a conversation or kind of share their journey with you where they can connect I'm going to share that information with you.

Jyoti Grewal: 53:54

Uh, it would be most likely. I would give my email address as a means of connection.

Gurasis Singh: 54:01

Okay, perfect. I'll put the links to that in the show notes as well. So, jyoti, before we get into the final segments, I want to briefly talk about your career that you are in, what made you go into that and what is all about.

Jyoti Grewal: 54:14

I think, my lived and living experiences. So this I shared the quote earlier with my favorite movie quote that's always been sort of the fire burning inside of me is the injustice, whether it's against women, against people as a whole. What happened to my family is questioning that unfairness that happens in our society based on pieces of identity that we don't choose. I didn't choose to be born a girl. I didn't choose to be born a girl. I didn't choose to be born into a Punjabi Sikh family, but then my trajectory in life was impacted by that and so a lot of people have that happen to them, where there's pieces of themselves that are not their choosing, but they get treated differently in society because of it.

Jyoti Grewal: 54:55

So I've been in the area of giving voices to marginalized people who don't have that advantage, you know, and fighting for their advantages and because the society is not fair, we don't all live the same life, there are definitely systemic wrongs that have been happening historically that still happen to current days. So those are the fields that I've been in, you know, in terms of equity, in terms of inclusion, belonging, anti-racism and giving voices, and my work has mostly been in education. So, whether it's having these conversations facilitating curiosity, planting seeds in people's minds to say, just because something's been done a certain way does not mean it's right or that it should stay that way.

Jyoti Grewal: 55:46

Absolutely so that would be my ask for for everyone. Listening today is like start questioning some of those things that have become normalized in your life. Maybe there's a little inch of you inside that's like I didn't. I don't like the way this is. Dig a bit deeper. What's a different way to look at it and how can we shift that so that it doesn't create, uh, totally different outcomes for people?

Gurasis Singh: 56:11

yeah, wow, I think you have articulated it perfectly. There's nothing to add from my end. Um, all right, so so, before we get into the final segment, I've added this new segment in this season. I call it to know your host, where I give my guests an opportunity to ask me any question they might have oh, very interesting.

Jyoti Grewal: 56:31

um, you had mentioned in our our um conversation before this podcast recording about your own journey, so I'm actually interested as the baby of your family, not an only son. What has changed for you? So go to cease from when he was 14. Let's say I'm going to pick up an age where you're just coming into your sense of identity. Now what? What are your top two things that you've learned that have changed?

Gurasis Singh: 57:03

You know it's funny, you said 14th, like 14 years of age, because that was exactly the time where, when my both sisters got married I was actually I just turned 14, my both sisters got married and it's just, you know, my parents and me in the house, and I think that's where my biggest realization happened that I just couldn't see my mother being the only person running in and out and doing everything and all the chores of the house. It it really hit me. I don't know how or why me, at such a young age, observed that, even though my upbringing and my sort of the initial lessons sort of like taught to me were very patriarchal. But I don't know how, it sort of hit me. But I think it was because it was my mother and you know I was very close to her as well and I just saw her and I just couldn't fathom the way she was running in and out and serving chapati, serving totis and and when the guests are there, you know, cooking meals for like I don't know 100 people. I'm like why is this happening? I don't know what happened.

Gurasis Singh: 58:07

Then I started helping her with everything, literally everything. I would go, I would help her serve the things and do this and that, and and that's where I was questioned that why are you doing it? You know, guys, don't do it, just stop it. You know, and because I live in a joint family and I was always questioned on some of the things that I was doing because, number one, I had two sisters and I saw that they had opinions, they had thoughts, because I was part of the closed room discussions where nobody else was, I was right there, I was a tiny tot, but I think again, like you said, I could sense the energies I could really under. I think I was a very, very good observer even back then and I was able to really absorb few things which I couldn't question. But then I started doing it and to the point of me coming to canada and me started cooking myself and discovering a life, uh, discovering a chef within me. That was also questioned by my own family initially, that you know, why are you cooking? You know, guys don't cook, you know whatever. And now it's been six, seven years and I do it, and now they're proud of me. Oh, wow, you can do this also, you can cook this also, this cuisine and that cuisine.

Gurasis Singh: 59:14

So I think it really started right from the time when my sisters got married, that my this, this thought of you know why women has to do everything and why certain things are not given permission to sort of them to do. Why is that? You know, because I saw my sisters got married. I saw they had opinions, I saw that sometimes they are more of a decision maker than my brother-in-laws. You know their husbands, I saw that happen. And then they had children. You know I see how they were bringing their children up. So that really, I think, sort of shaped my understanding of it also.

Gurasis Singh: 59:45

Then I came to Canada and I think here just getting exposed to people from all kinds of cultures, all sort of religions, and living in shared spaces where I'm living with people from six different religions, you know, which I never heard about sometimes, and then I understanding their cultures, understanding their upbringings, and then you realize that, okay, there are a lot of things that were fed to me, sort of like shoved down my throat growing up, which are not serving me anymore and I really have to unlearn. For example, not seeing a woman boss. Why is that, whenever the word boss comes to my mind, not seeing a woman boss? Why is that whenever the the word boss comes to my mind. Why always picture a guy within a suit? Why is that? You know? But whereas I know my sisters are very strong and I know the people I've met throughout my life, the women are extremely strong. Why is that? So I start questioning that and I think that really impacted my initial years here in Canada because I didn't know that these things exist.

Gurasis Singh: 1:00:38

But then eventually I think I unlearned and relearned and also realizing that it's okay to feel emotions, right, no matter the emotions are happy, sad, angry, creative, whatever.

Gurasis Singh: 1:00:48

These are just emotion and the need to be embraced. That will benefit me today and in the future years, all the relationships I get into in my life, in a professional, personal. So yeah, these are the few things I would say has really helped me become like a good asses 2.0 in Canada, which I didn't have the understanding or sort of the ability to question or sort of even the I'll tell you also the time to question, because when you are in that space you never really have the time to reflect. You are around so much noise, so much hustle and bustle happening around you that I never got the personal time or the personal space to reflect until it came pandemic and I actually had the time to reflect that. Okay, what is it that's actually making me feel good and what is not making me feel good, you know? So that's where I would say this is how my evolution has been, and thanks to me coming here and living in Canada.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:01:45

Yeah, that's so beautiful. Can I ask a follow up question? Sure, so go to CIS 2.0. Are you doing anything to, in your areas of influence with your, the male members of your family, let's say, be it your dad, you know, cousins, that kind of a thing, brother in laws to sort of have like a ripple effect? Because I think each of us is a beacon of power based on the people we touch Right. I don't believe that we are powerless, so anything in that regard.

Gurasis Singh: 1:02:20

I'll give you an example which I analogy. Basically I use a lot Whenever I talk about speaking with elders. I say imagine there's a 65-story building in front of you and you are like at your 25th, 26th, wherever the floor you are at, and if you want to renovate yourself, you can break it one by one and maybe you'll be able to do it. But on the other side, if you'll mess with it too much, it's going to fall right at you and you'll be hurt. So what I try to do is I find the middle ground where I can make the elder people understand my point of view on things. The people understand my point of view and things. So that's how I've been doing it. Uh, for the younger generation, I would say, just because everybody's so much exposed to the internet today, I think a lot of my cousins and my family understand my point of views, where I'm coming from, from various topics. But I think it's the old generation. I really make a conscious effort to sit with them and have those difficult conversations with them. To the point of women working. To the point of women, even though they don't like cooking, it's fine. Or even to the point of getting together and starting a business, why not, you know? So that's the point of things. I think I really make an effort to have a discussion within my family settings. Yeah, beautiful, thank you. Wow, such a unique questions. Thank you for that.

Gurasis Singh: 1:03:50

All right, so now we're in the final segment. I call it beneath the accent. I'm going to ask a couple of questions. You can answer them in one word or a sentence, or how. So you feel like the idea is just to know more about you. It's like a rapid fire, okay. Rapid fire, okay, okay. So what advice would you give to a younger self, and at what age?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:04:13

16.

Gurasis Singh: 1:04:17

Break some rules okay, and what would you like to say to your 60 year old self?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:04:28

it's all okay okay, okay.

Gurasis Singh: 1:04:34

Describe a moment when you experienced a significant cultural difference that surprised you. Repeat that for me one more time please Describe a moment when you experienced a significant cultural difference that surprised you.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:04:56

The first time I saw someone put water on their husband's feet and drink it no way really, yeah, okay all sorts of things with that one okay that's so bizarre, okay?

Gurasis Singh: 1:05:14

um, what's that? One dish from your home country that always brings you comfort and nostalgia?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:05:20

Saag makki roti. Yes.

Gurasis Singh: 1:05:25

Okay, what's your favorite cultural festival or celebration in Canada, and how do you usually celebrate it?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:05:34

At Diwali. I long for Diwali in India that. I'll remember because of course I was there the first seven years, but I don't remember. Here we celebrate by going to the Gurdwara, by going to our families, my sister's house, and then my mom will always do a prayer.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:05:53

You know, the kids get gifts, money, usually the kids get gifts money usually, and just that collection of visiting people's houses, giving sweets, and this joyous moment of literally lighting, you know, vias lamps around our house, in front of our house, and I think it's just full of hope and connection, okay, and any cultural festival in. Canada that you celebrate. I guess I celebrate Christmas to a point, not the religious aspect of it, but we put up a tree, we do the gifts and again it's more of the family and the connection piece of it together.

Gurasis Singh: 1:06:35

Okay, I see.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:06:46

Is there a friend that you came to Canada in your initial years and are you still in connect with them? Different phases in life I have sometimes it's my own decision, I would say mostly it's been my decision to cut off connections because the narrative that they still held on to wasn't serving me and allowing me to move on.

Gurasis Singh: 1:07:11

Okay, if you had to describe yourself as any creature, what would it be and why? I see myself as a lion Okay.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:07:24

Sometimes with my big hair, physically. But I think I have a very protective nature and if there is something that I want to dig into and stand by, then my claws come out and I stand big and protect whatever it is behind me that I'm trying to protect.

Gurasis Singh: 1:07:44

Awesome, and if you could have one superpower, what would it be?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:07:58

Wow, that's a tough question. I'm trying not to go superficial, like the ability to fly or something right, because that would be a cool factor. I don't know if it would serve anybody anywhere with me flying around everywhere um and then falling down with the weight of snow falling.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:08:16

Yes, or being eaten by an eagle, or something like that. I think it would be more the ability to mold, because I think there's so much. You know, we often say if the world had more women leaders, we would have less wars, better decision making power. So, not the ability to like, be able to read people's minds, but the ability to be able to convince people about the greater good, solve some of our issues like poverty and like these silly wars that we come up against and we use those and focus on them rather than the real problems that the world has. Okay, think about that one deeper. Maybe you'll get an email from me tomorrow.

Gurasis Singh: 1:09:03

Okay, if you could create this one law that everybody has to follow, whoever it be.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:09:10

Kindness. So before you open your mouth, before you make a decision, think about is this helpful, Is it necessary and is it kind? And I think in there you'll a decision. Think about is this helpful, Is it necessary and is it kind? And I think in there, wrapped up, you'll find who is it harming and maybe you'll take a better decision.

Gurasis Singh: 1:09:27

Absolutely Okay. So home is where the heart is. If you had to choose one thing that makes you feel most at home in Canada, what would it be?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:09:40

Obviously my family my husband, children, my mom is where my home is, but if we're looking at non-human things, it would be a good cup of ja, okay.

Gurasis Singh: 1:09:55

So finally, describe Canada in one word or a sentence Complex.

Jyoti Grewal: 1:10:11

Why would you say that Complexity in everything, in the people, in the different cultures we have, in the changes that happen to people once they get off that airplane, from the first time to the end of their time? Here it's complex, and in complex is the good and the bad.

Gurasis Singh: 1:10:29

Wow, absolutely yeah. And if you could leave me Jyoti with one piece of advice, what would it be?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:10:37

Keep doing what you're doing. Me, jyoti, with one piece of advice. What would it be? Keep doing what you're doing? Um, I have to say I only recently met you, but I am so proud of you, uh, for picking up the torch on this and, um, especially being a male, and you're doing it. Even the name of your podcast is just like you're putting whatever the stigma is in bright, shining lights and saying here is and here is what someone with a thick accent is capable of doing, because I think you're, you're being a beacon for people to discuss these issues, for individuals like myself to, to share our experiences, because I know that I'm not alone in my experience. You know you're not alone in your experiences and it just takes a few of us to rise up and discuss this and help others. So thank you for what you're doing.

Gurasis Singh: 1:11:23

Thank you for kind words and, lastly, how would you describe your experience being on the podcast today?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:11:38

you on the phone, so I was quite comfortable and I knew it was going to be just a great conversation and I. You have a very calming way and you're vulnerable, so it allows your speaker to be vulnerable as well. So I appreciate that and I hope you keep doing that and using your voice right for the greater good. But I think this is such a wonderful idea, absolutely.

Gurasis Singh: 1:11:56

And was this something that you had like a certain expectation from the podcast, and how was it like?

Jyoti Grewal: 1:12:02

I. My expectation was we're going to have a conversation about some important things, but because I'm the subject matter expert of my own life, I wasn't worried. No notes, no research was necessary. This is I'm speaking from my heart, my head, and that's exactly how it went. I'm looking at the time. I don't know where it went. My heart, my head, and that's exactly how it went. I'm looking at the time. I don't know where it went. It was very quick and I thank you for that as well, for making it easy for me.

Gurasis Singh: 1:12:26

Okay, awesome. Thank you for saying that and thank you for being on the podcast and adding value to me and to my listeners. Thank you, absolutely. Thank you for having me.