Peta-Gaye: 0:00

I was born in Kingston, Jamaica. I have basically lived my life as an immigrant.

Gurasis: 0:05

Please welcome the inspiring Peta-Gaye.

Peta-Gaye: 0:07

My dream was always to be a writer. I was an avid reader, loved reading.

Gurasis: 0:12

You, with your family, moved to US.

Peta-Gaye: 0:13

When they called my name for the attendance. Well, the first time, no big deal. Second, third time, after people started laughing, I was terrified for attendance each morning. Teachers would not even make an effort to learn how my name was pronounced. Some of them would even say don't you have a nickname? As well as bullying by the other children. I was working in a vinyl factory. We got into an argument, went on to say that he hated all immigrants. If he had a gun he would shoot them. He called me the worst names, a black C word. He called me the N word. He went to attack me and this was a very large individual, very large.

Peta-Gaye: 0:54

I wanted to teach English as a second language to newcomers and I did that for 15 years. I needed a change from that and I discovered the OSLT program. Oslt is Occupation Specific Language Training. So a lot of people ask me well, I don't have Canadian experience. You do not need Canadian experience. That's the beauty of the OSLT course. It's your past experience or education that counts. It really supports newcomers in their quest to improve their workplace-related English.

Gurasis: 1:42

Imagine at the age of 12, being forced to change your name because people didn't make the effort to pronounce it correctly. Imagine being bullied for the color of your skin, feeling like your identity was erased. Imagine at the age of 17, experiencing racism in its rawest form, being called hateful slurs, threatened with violence and told that you, as an immigrant, don't belong. Well, that's the reality our guest faced, but it's far from where her story ends. Born in Kingston, jamaica, she has lived in the United States, norway and now Canada for over 20 years.

Gurasis: 2:26

She's a celebrated author, with seven published children's books, including one that found its happy ending six years after it was first written. Her literary journey earned her the Marty Award for Emerging Literary Art in 2015, and she continues to inspire readers of all ages. Her passion for supporting others extends beyond her writing. She spent 15 years teaching English as a second language to newcomers and now serves as the project coordinator for Humber Polytechnic Occupational Specific Language Training Program. Today, she is here to share her incredible journey of resilience, cultural identity and perseverance, and inspire us with her hard-earned wisdom. We'd also dive into the details of the OSLT program, a vital resource for newcomers navigating their careers in Canada. Please welcome the inspiring Peta-Gaye.

Peta-Gaye: 3:30

Thank you so much.

Peta-Gaye: 3:31

Gurasis, it's an honor to be here chatting with you today.

Gurasis: 3:32

No, I think the honor is all mine. It's so good to learn about your journey. The last time I spoke with you when I was like I have to have you on the show and learn more about your journey from you, and obviously you know, share with the listeners what all you have you know done so far Pe Peta-Gaye. So very, very excited to have you on the show. Welcome.

Peta-Gaye: 3:49

Thank you.

Gurasis: 3:51

Okay. So, like I told you before, I love to go. You know, chronologically, I want to start from the start. Tell us about your time in Jamaica, a little bit about your formative years and how was it like just growing up there?

Peta-Gaye: 4:04

So I was born in Kingston, jamaica, and it occurred to me when we were doing this interview that I have basically lived my life as an immigrant. The reality actually hit me a couple of days ago, because I left there when I was 12 because of political unrest and violence. So we moved to the United States and that began my journey as an immigrant to another place.

Gurasis: 4:36

So before you moved to the US, how was it like just now in Jamaica Growing up here? Maybe the family dynamics and also, I believe it's also just like India, a collectivist society, right, and things are very different from this North American country? Tell us about that.

Peta-Gaye: 4:53

I mean I was surrounded by a lot of family, a lot of longtime friendships, where you know. You call people who are your parents friends, aunt, uncle. You call people who are your parents friends, aunt, uncle, a very close society where there's a lot of family gatherings, a lot of interaction. Jamaica is very different. It has changed a lot now, but I remember back then just being very shy, being very introverted and also being very frightened about what was happening in my country.

Peta-Gaye: 5:28

You know, people started to grill their homes. You saw soldiers with machine guns on the streets. I mean this is going back into the 70s and a lot of. Jamaicans will know exactly what I'm talking about when I talk about the 70s. It was a time of violence, you know, politically so for a child growing up that was frightening. That was frightening for me and I have to say I have carried that trauma throughout my life.

Peta-Gaye: 5:56

If I hear a firecracker my first thought is not that it's a firecracker, it's that it's a gunshot yeah, I mean,

Gurasis: 6:04

this is a thing we are kind of like joking about today, but I know it's something very deep-rooted and people who have gone through similar situations and just exactly what's happening around the world today also it's very saddening. Um, but tell me, what was your dream career growing up? Well, like first influenced you at that tender age of under 10?

Peta-Gaye: 6:28

So my dream was always to be a writer. I was an avid reader loved reading. My mother would scold me to turn off the light and put away the books, so it was anything to do with writing. I used to see myself as a reporter writing for magazines, just something like that. That was a dream. That was before the immigrant journey.

Gurasis: 6:54

You still sort of carried that you know author in you, the writer in you in the later years of your life a little bit.

Peta-Gaye: 7:02

Yes, it took a long time to get there. And. I think the length of that time had to do with just the way the publishing industry works and also a lot of self-doubt. Absolutely, because if you don't believe that you can do something, you never take the steps to do it. And. I think that was an unfortunate part of my journey not believing that I could, so therefore not moving forward. Not, you know, I would write the goal, but you have to break down the goal into smaller components.

Gurasis: 7:35

I think you have definitely come a long way, you know, from that imposter syndrome and I would love to dive deeper into that. Before we get into that, I just want to ask you is there something about Jamaica that people might not know and you would like to educate us?

Peta-Gaye: 7:50

Sure. Something about Jamaica that a lot of people might not know is that we are a country of many different races, so you will have Lebanese Jamaicans, chinese Jamaicans, indian Jamaicans and a lot of mixed race people. Our motto is actually out of many one people.

Gurasis: 8:16

Okay, wow, I didn't know that. Thank you for sharing with us. Yeah, you know. After that, obviously, like you said, you with your family moved to US, right, and it was sort of your very first time you were immigrating to a new country. Do you have any initial impressions or initial thoughts of moving to US? How was it like just there in the initial year?

Peta-Gaye: 8:37

let's, let's dive in. So the thought of moving to the US at the time was very exciting to me. I mean, jamaica was a small island. Everything about the US to me was all that glittered. But I was coming from a society where I went to an all-girls Catholic school. We wore uniforms. And then imagine coming into this society where you were close to school, you could basically dress any way that you wanted. There was not the same kind of respect for teachers as what I was used to. It was such a different society that school there was shocking and I was a fish out of water, you know shocking and I was a fish out of water when they called my name for the attendance.

Peta-Gaye: 9:31

Well, the first time, no big deal. Second, third time, after people started laughing. It got to be that I was terrified for attendance each morning and the teachers would not even make an effort to learn how my name was pronounced. Some of them would even say don't you have a nickname, you know? So I felt that I had to change my name, and I didn't know what to change it to. Should I change it to my middle name, Teresa, or should I just, you know, make initials? So for years I became known as PG, and that was just out of the disregard by the adult teachers for something that was different, as well as bullying by the other children.

Gurasis: 10:22

You know this has been ongoing discussion on the show regarding the name that how personal these names are to us and when they are not really perceived or respected the same way in this foreign land. It really hurts and this can only be understood by the people who have gone through it. And some extent I have also gone through it, but I would never say it was as bad as your experience, because I feel like at the tender age of 11 or 12 you really don't know how to process your thoughts or even kind of like react to things. You know in that particular situation at this point.

Gurasis: 11:00

Okay, when I came I was like in my early 20s and I was able to kind of navigate, whether somebody's saying gurus or jurasses or gurasses or you know whatever was coming their way, and I don't blame them. Also, it was just how they were taught to pronounce things. But at that tender age you know children are innocent, they just react and do things howsoever they want to react. Right. But tell me, how were you able to process that? Do you have any mentor, maybe a family member, somebody you were speaking

Gurasis: 11:27

to about it?

Peta-Gaye: 11:29

unfortunately. No, I did carry that anger with me for a long time because my sisters are named traditional English names. My name, I think, is quite Jamaican. I've never really heard too many people outside of Jamaica with this name and I did blame my parents. You know how could you do this, but of course nobody knows at the time that you will migrate to another country. That's the first thing. Second thing no one thinks that the rest of the world is going to be so cruel with things that they don't understand.

Peta-Gaye: 12:05

the rest of the world is going to be so cruel with things that they don't understand. I mean, I could not imagine making fun of someone else for their name.

Peta-Gaye: 12:09

It's such an important part of who you are and I wondered for many years should I change it? You know, I remember my mom saying well, you know, we were going to call you Cassandra and I said well, that really would have made my life a lot easier. But with time and with wisdom, I think I've learned that maybe our journey is not really meant to be so easy and maybe I had to learn to stand up for who I am you know in all its forms, the name being just one of them.

Peta-Gaye: 12:45

So I process it now. Did I process it then? No, I didn't, I was just called PG. For years I went along with that and you know, I remember those early days when my parents would call me Peta-Gaye.

Peta-Gaye: 13:02

I stopped answering parents would call me Peta-Gaye. I stopped answering,

Gurasis: 13:08

but I think it wasn't limited to the name. You did have some unfortunate experiences towards your skin color as well. Right, Tell me about those.

Peta-Gaye: 13:16

People were just unkind in general. I mean, I was an immigrant. There was a name, there was an accent which I've still kept to this day. I like my accent and you know, when you move somewhere at 12, it's not that easy to change unless you really make that effort. It was the accent, it was the skin color, and I remember that I had a very close friend who was white with blonde hair in junior high when we moved to high school, who was white with blonde hair in junior high.

Peta-Gaye: 13:47

When we moved to high school we sort of separated and when I got in touch with her later on Facebook, I said what happened to us and she said you know, you and all the other brown, black, hispanic people had lockers in a different hallway. She said you might not have realized this, but you are segregated. This was in Orlando, florida, back in the eighties. She said me being a white person, I did not feel that I belonged there, so you were then making friends with all these other people and our friendship, you know, sort of just. Anyway, when I went into that hallway, what I was thinking was oh wow, everyone finally looks like me.

Peta-Gaye: 14:33

I mean, this is when break dancing started to happen and hip hop was you know, just was coming out there.

Peta-Gaye: 14:40

Yeah, it started to boom and I was excited. No-transcript Canada. I can understand why she would have felt so visible. She was now the minority and maybe she even felt anger from African-Americans. I don't know what she felt, but I know that she was my friend. She sought out my friendship. I don't know if it was superior so much as whoa. No, I'm different and I don't feel like I belong in this space with everybody else. Space with everybody else. Yeah, um, and you know, one day I hope we'll all um, we'll all realize that we are human.

Peta-Gaye: 15:51

Yes, we have different languages, cultures, way of speaking, but we are the same species of, of human,

Gurasis: 15:59

absolutely not that different yeah, yeah, yeah, we do see all those kind of, you know, memes and videos on the internet that literally we all are the same, like the habits that we do, the things that we do. Sometimes, you know, the certain uh psychological behaviors that we tend to, you know, pursue is literally the same amongst everybody, despite the color you know it is the same, absolutely, but we tend to like what's familiar.

Peta-Gaye: 16:24

So you know, we we gravitate towards people who maybe look like us, speak like us, have our same background or similar,

Gurasis: 16:31

but you obviously you know you being you the immigrant your whole life, you did not dwell there in us.

Gurasis: 16:39

You decided to come to canada. You know you spend your late teens there and I believe you lived with your aunt, I believe, right here in Canada back in when you came at the age of like 17 or so. But tell us like, why did you decide to come to Canada to study?

Peta-Gaye: 16:57

So I believe my parents felt that Canada would be more affordable, it would be less distracting for a person like me who still had not really settled down.

Gurasis: 17:10

Instead of going, what were they expecting at the age of 17 to settle down. Come on.

Peta-Gaye: 17:16

Well, to settle down, meaning be studious, be academically oriented you know really focus on, be academically oriented, you know, really focus on the next step of growing into a young adult. I was not there yet. I was still looking for, you know, friends. I wanted to travel. That was a thing that was on my mind. So Canada was a good, safe choice and my aunt lived here. So I moved in with her at 17, sorry to do the 13th grade curriculum and that was also a very big culture shock. Her family she had children, but they were not yet teenagers. So here is this teenager from Jamaica and the States coming to stay. It must have been a very weird experience for her, also the cultural difference. She had now lived here for most of her life. I had had everything done for me. If.

Peta-Gaye: 18:13

I needed anything, I would go to my parents. I remember the first thing she's saying to me was I asked her this question. Her response was PG, look in the phone book. And I thought or the yellow pages. And I thought yellow pages, you're not going to do it for me and just give me the answer.

Peta-Gaye: 18:32

So it was very different

Gurasis: 18:36

so tell us about the cultural shock that experience like. Technically, you moved for the second time, right. Do you have any recollection of something that significantly shocked you that, oh my god, I've never seen this before or never experienced this before?

Peta-Gaye: 18:51

When I came to Canada in the 80s, it shocked me that people were so reserved that there did not seem to be a sense of community in the way that I knew it. People did not make eye contact. You would pass someone on the road or wherever. It might just be you and another person. No one would look at you and even acknowledge that you were there. No one said good morning, good afternoon, you know. It just felt like you were isolated completely.

Peta-Gaye: 19:28

And I know there are differences in cultures but, being an immigrant, I really I think I can see the good in cultures and the things that I'm not as drawn to. I see I'm not as drawn to. I see, and I think when you are too much of an independent society, you know it's difficult, it's difficult for children to grow up in a society like this, sometimes feeling like they are too independent, that they don't have this, you know, respect for an adult's advice, or feeling that they're just an entity unto themselves. They can just do anything in public and no one is going to report it to their parents and there's just not that sense of you know, oh, I've seen you, so um, around here, hello. I miss that a lot.

Peta-Gaye: 20:25

I really miss that yeah no,

Gurasis: 20:27

I think I can totally understand what you're saying here, because I think I lived in this one house for two years and I never saw my neighbors. I never interacted with my neighbors. You know, it wasn't up until my last day, when I was literally moving out of the house, putting my you know luggage outside, and then I saw like a couple standing outside and then this said hello. I was like hello, like I didn't see them for two years. You know all we might be passing each other all the time, you know. So, yeah, I totally understand.

Gurasis: 20:57

It's completely different here. You know, things are very, very, very strange for us initially, but I think eventually you sort of like get into it, you understand, and you don't really focus too much on it. Um, but in your case, you know, pita gay, things were not limited to this. There was so much beyond that in terms of the time where you started working in a factory. Right, you told me that story. I would want you to share that story with our listeners as well. What happened there?

Peta-Gaye: 21:30

Okay, so this is. After graduating from McMaster University, I decided that I still didn't want to settle down. I wanted to travel the world and to do that I was working in a vinyl factory to save up for this, and this is still tough sometimes. But I was working with someone and he was from Newfoundland. We got into an argument and basically he was saying that you immigrants are taking jobs away from Canadians. He went on to say that he hated all immigrants. If he had a gun, he would shoot them and he called me the worst names, a black C word. He called me the N word. Call me the worst names, a black C word.

Peta-Gaye: 22:22

He called me the N word and me, being a proud Jamaican, did not respond. Oh, and, being young and immature as well, I did not respond with. You know, petergate, take yourself away from this man. He's very angry. I responded with but look at you, you're just a big loser, you know. And I also went on as if you know.

Peta-Gaye: 22:44

I mean I was going traveling, I was, I had just graduated, I was in my 20s. That must have infuriated him and he went to attack me, and this was a very large individual, very large, and the supervisor, the foreman ran into his office and locked the door and it took my other co-workers, men who grabbed this very big individual and held him back from me. He would have caused a lot of damage, but it's something I've never forgotten, you know. I went home, I put it in my diary, I read it again during COVID and thought imagine if the world was still that way. And I'm sure there are people who exist that still believe that. But I also believe that there are many who do not think like that at all, and I'm blessed to be in workplaces where it's diverse, I'm accepted, I'm given the opportunity to grow. So thank God it's no longer like that, at least for me, but I'm sure there are places where it's still like that for others.

Gurasis: 23:57

Yeah, fortunately we have come a long way, but still I think those kind of orthodox thinking does exist in some people. We do see the examples of those all over the news, especially towards the immigrants from a certain part of the country, like I am from that country, from india. I see a lot of hate coming towards immigrants, which is not really justified, you know, to the point of taking jobs and this like we are contributing so much to the nation as well, which is completely neglected, you know, not even noticed at all, um, but you know, coming back to that point, I mean what kind of man he was, that he was coming to hit you and he had no self-control at all. Right, and kudos to you for not really responding to him and not really letting that immerse in you and getting affected. So kudos to you for that, for you know standing up for that. So hats off.

Peta-Gaye: 24:53

No, thank you, but it's so funny because there was this other man. He was older now and you know it's so funny with people, gorasis, it's just really weird with people. He would be in the lunchroom with me I'll never forget this and he would make black jokes constantly and everyone would sort of look at me to see how I would react and I would just continue eating as if I didn't hear at all. This same man who constantly made black jokes to try to upset me was also the same person who saw that I was riding a bicycle in all kinds of weather to get to this factory, and he was the one who offered so much kindness to say let me pick you and your bicycle up, take you to the office. You know you get off the train, I'll be there to take you to the office. Okay.

Peta-Gaye: 25:54

So, and then we would share life stories along the way. It was the strangest thing, but when he got into a crowd of other people, you know he would make these horrible jokes.

Peta-Gaye: 26:07

I've always wondered about that, you know, are we different when we are alone than when we are with other people? And trying to prove that we're, yeah, but I've always found that interesting people can be two ways. Two truths can exist at the same time, as my sister always likes to tell me. You know, you, you can be racist or have certain beliefs because of your upbringing, but you can also still show kindness when people are in need absolutely.

Gurasis: 26:39

Yeah. No, I think this sort of subtle hypocrisy does exist in people here. I see that in the way sometimes they treat you and, uh, you might not, uh, analyze it in the moment, but eventually when you reflect on it, you'll be like hold on. Did that person just say that, oh, I'm happy that you are on time today? Are you just trying to say that indians are not on time? You know those subtle things that come your way some way or the other.

Peta-Gaye: 27:08

They don't go unnoticed yes, well, it's like someone told me the other day that someone actually said to her co-worker who you usually wore her hair straight and then she wore it curly in the office. Someone said oh, so you decided to look professional today oh, wow and I just thought oh wow, yeah, that's what I said. Oh wow, you can't help the hair growing out of your head.

Gurasis: 27:30

You know absolutely oh my god, I think we really have to. You know, have blindness towards these kind of comments. Just go about your day, you know, not even brew that negativity around you, just ignore it. That's what my suggestion would be to all the listeners if any of you have experienced these kind of things. But your next stop after Canada was Norway. Oh my gosh, you have been traveling this whole time. You know immigrant whole your life. You know, tell me about your time in Norway, and I have honestly not spoken to a lot of people who have lived in Norway, so I would love for you to just share everything that you can about your time there.

Peta-Gaye: 28:11

Okay, so when I landed in Norway after you know traveling I lived there on and off for three years. That was an important part of my journey because for the first time, I lived in a place where English was not the language and I had to learn Norwegian.

Peta-Gaye: 28:31

That was one thing, and the people were even more reserved than Canadians. So that was, you know, everything about me just felt wrong. I looked too different because at least in Canada there was still diversity. In the 80s, when I went to Norway, there was not a lot of diversity at all. This was now in the mid-1990s, and then, of course, I had to learn Norwegian.

Peta-Gaye: 28:59

Luckily, I went to school to learn, and the teacher there I can't even remember his name, but I just remember how he was as a person, how compassionate he was, how motivating he was and how he said to all of us you know, English has so many more words than Norwegian. You guys can do this, you can learn this language. And I remember sitting in that classroom thinking in my head if I ever go back to Canada, I'm going to teach English as a second language. I'm going to inspire people the way this man is now inspiring me, you know. So I think that was a very important part of my journey. It sort of was a framework of where I was going to go in the future.

Gurasis: 29:48

Absolutely yeah. But how was the culture? Like you have lived in Jamaica, then US and then Canada, and I think US, canada, north America is sort of similar, not exactly, but a little bit. But then Norway, how was that different?

Peta-Gaye: 30:03

like Very different hard to make friends if you didn't know the language. Hard to get a job if you didn't know the language. I remember going out, people, just you know, staring at me. I would go to a pub and people would be touching my hair. That was the part of my journey where I thought I really want to go home Jamaican, in Jamaica, at least to see what that's like. I think it was just different, and I'm not saying that I couldn't have stayed if I had to, but I had the choice For me. I wanted to eat spicy, well-flavored food. You know I wanted people to be outwardly expressive the way I was. I wanted music to be vibrant. You know it's great to learn about different cultures, but at some point I just wanted to experience mine.

Gurasis: 31:20

And so I went back. So how was it that, like like, after living, you know, a couple of years outside of Jamaica and then going back, were you able to fit in? Would you call yourself still Jamaican when you went back?

Peta-Gaye: 31:34

I didn't feel very Jamaican. It was very hard to fit back in. We've talked, we've heard about reverse culture shock and I completely felt like that, you know, reverse culture shock, and I almost felt like I was going back, almost as a tourist. And here's an example I went to the supermarket in Kingston in shorts, I got a few looks, but that's what I did in other countries.

Peta-Gaye: 32:04

And now here, I was in a hot country, but then it hit me. I looked around, no matter how hot it was, that's not how you dress to go to the supermarket. I didn't know that People were all in long pants and I don't know how that is right now. I'm just saying, at these points in time, these are the things that I experienced, this is what I noticed and I thought, oh okay, next time it could be a hundred degrees Fahrenheit, I'm going to wear jeans because that's what everybody else does. So there's always nuances to culture that if you're just constantly going back and forth, you really have to open your eyes, look around and say, oh, this is done, that is done.

Gurasis: 32:51

And what about getting a job? How was that like?

Peta-Gaye: 32:54

It was very difficult for me to go back to Jamaica and get a job. First of all, I had spent so many years traveling and not knowing exactly what I wanted to do. I remember that I did get a job on the North Coast, which is our beach area, our tourist area, and I thought oh, this is going to be a very relaxing, wonderful experience. Well, working in Jamaica was not that for me. I remember wearing a linen suit and my manager saying to me, looking me up and down and saying you need to learn how to use starch and an iron, and it was just so British and strict. And I thought you know what? This is not for me either.

Peta-Gaye: 33:46

I would love to be in my country, but this is not what I want. So I left shortly after that to go to Kingston and by then I was raising children and I was looking to write more. I started writing short stories for the newspaper. And then the trip to canada, the last leg of the journey, maybe not the last, who knows yeah, you never know, go to india now you know.

Peta-Gaye: 34:14

Next one yes, at least it'll be hot we have, uh, all kinds of feathers.

Gurasis: 34:20

You know, obviously, like you said, you called canada your last leg, so to say, and you came here, like in 2002, with your family, right, and this and this point, pichage, you were not coming alone, you were not getting into a different country and different culture. You were coming with your family, with your children, right, and I think that would have a greater influence on your experiences and, obviously, the things that you end up pursuing in this new country. Right, and at that point only. We were also talking about learning and unlearning, and I just want to read something that I quoted from one of your interviews. You said that how you are in one country and how people relate to you in that country is very different than when you are in another place. In Jamaica, you might be seen a certain way, but when you come to Canada, maybe people will look at you and see something very different.

Peta-Gaye: 35:20

So that quote? The context of that quote is that as a light-skinned Black person, I do realize that I have a lot of privilege. In Jamaica, you know, I am not going to walk into a store and people are going to follow me thinking I'm stealing.

Peta-Gaye: 35:42

No, that would never happen. But you come to Canada and then suddenly you have all the negative stereotypes of being black, being Jamaican, whatever it is. So that's where that quote came from. It's almost like you get off the plane and suddenly you're different Not how you feel inside, but how other people look and act towards you side, but how other people look and act towards you. You know.

Peta-Gaye: 36:18

And now, as I tell my children who asked me you know, because they asked me about their relatives in Jamaica who might do certain things that would not be done here, you know, and I say now, now I just know that I'm gonna go with it, meaning, yes, you can still have your values, you can always have your values and stand up for what you believe in absolutely. But it makes no sense for me personally to argue with people and try to change their viewpoint. When most people will have a certain way of thinking and acting, they will have their viewpoints. So I'm not going to come with my Canadian mindset and try to change my family in Jamaica, who have a different mindset. Nor am I going to take that mindset here into things that I do.

Peta-Gaye: 37:14

And yeah, some people might say, well, isn't that hypocritical? No, maybe more of a chameleon. You know, it's more important to me to get along with people and to treat them with respect in the space that they are, with the belief system that they currently have. I'm not going to be the one to say you said this word and we don't say that in Canada. I'm not going to do that, so that's where that quote was taken from, I mean, and, as I said, as I always tell my children. This is why, though, it is so important to know who you are to be self-aware.

Peta-Gaye: 37:57

We all have faults, we can all grow, we all have triggers that you know might upset us from time to time. But the core of who you are, you have to really have that self-worth, and I really believe in this because you can't let what different cultures or different people think make you, you know, emotionally dysregulated or just or just battered. Yeah, you have to be firm with yourself In who you are. I mean.

Gurasis: 38:29

A hundred percent. Yeah, you know, sometimes when I am in a certain setting, I consider myself somebody who is representing my culture and my community Sometimes and I think I should not do that because I think by doing that I'm putting a lot of pressure on myself but I want to ask you, peter Gay obviously like since you're older than me, you lived more life and experiences than me have you ever had that sort of a feeling where you are represent, you feel like I'm representing my culture?

Peta-Gaye: 39:02

yes, but I would say that each of us reads a room, we read the room and then we make those decisions. How are we going to relate to the next person? Are we going to be a representative of our country in that space, or are we going to give the other person grace for us to learn about them and give ourselves grace to share about ourselves? It's going to be different in every, in every encounter, you know. So I think the pressure is more, you know, taking a deep breath and deciding what is required of me in this situation I see.

Gurasis: 39:49

So I think it's more of like an individual decision rather than a communal decision or a pressure to do something. Yeah.

Peta-Gaye: 39:57

I fully believe that.

Gurasis: 39:59

Yeah.

Peta-Gaye: 39:59

You know, we're meeting people hundreds of times a week could be different people, or maybe a month, depending on how much you're out there, and I've learned to, I wouldn't say, go with the flow, but just to be a lot less judgmental, more accepting, absolutely. I remember a hypnotist told me that once. Really yes, she said you know very successful people, people who are good with other people, are more like chameleons. You know, if someone says if there's a snowstorm, for example she used this example because I really I'm not a fan of winter and she'd say you know, if someone says what a beautiful winter day and there might be a snowstorm or it might be cold, she said you know, you don't have to disagree just because you don't like winter. Just yeah, yeah, it's a great day. And to me that was so alien and I was saying but I hate winter, you know. And she said it's not about you hating winter, it's about a, a conversation.

Peta-Gaye: 41:11

Someone has taken the time to make a comment to you yeah you are going to comment back, but you're going to do it with respect, with politeness. You're not going to, you know. Just say no, I hate that. Today is awful. How can you think that?

Gurasis: 41:27

exactly. I mean, it does make things a little bit easier when you see that where the other person is coming from and you try to be in their shoes for a moment. It does, think, makes a little bit lighter and the conversation goes smoothly. Absolutely, absolutely, wow, great conversation. But now I'm gonna pivot towards you know your uh, literary career, which is absolutely I'm fascinated by because I saw you have been on various shows as well, you have got the awards as well. But I think all this started back in 2003, as per my research, that you wrote your first book but you did not finish it, and you actually finished it six years later when you said that you finally found the happy ending. Tell me a little bit about that and my listeners also.

Peta-Gaye: 42:14

So my second daughter, jade, came to Canada when she had just turned three. It was very traumatic for her and she had this stuffed tiger that she had brought with her from Jamaica and she carried it with her everywhere. So of course, when she started kindergarten she wanted to carry it to school and I kept saying, no, don't take Raja to school. But she begged and begged, and begged and finally I let her take Raja to school and of course you know what happened he got lost and even at that young age she knew that she didn't have anything to say because she had wanted this so much.

Peta-Gaye: 42:55

We had wonder. Roger was gone. We looked for roger everywhere, could not find him, and every year there was a carnival and a stuffy room where people could donate their stuffed animals. So she would go looking for roger, and roger was never there in the stuffy room where people could donate their stuffed animals. So she would go looking for Raja, and Raja was never there in the stuffy room. So sixth grade now. So I wrote the book when it happened, because I wanted children to learn to listen to their parents and don't take important things to school.

Peta-Gaye: 43:25

But then it wasn't a story because that was the end of the story. But then it wasn't a story because that was the end of the story. It wasn't a good ending. Sixth grade comes, jade goes to the stuffy room. Again, raja is not there and she basically gives up. Right before she's leaving the carnival, a woman comes walking down the hall with a stuffed tiger and she goes that looks like Raja and her friend said go ask. So she goes up to the woman and says that looks like a stuffed animal that I lost here when I was in kindergarten. And the woman said I just found him on the floor. It was the same stuffed animal. He looked a lot worse. He was missing an eye.

Peta-Gaye: 44:03

But Roger finally came home and the story had an ending. So you know, to me this was a story of resilience Jade looked every year, perseverance. It was just a nice happy ending. And that was my first children's book, and Raja still lives at home with us.

Gurasis: 44:24

Wow, that's incredible. So that's what inspired to write that book. Also, I saw the title, which had the name Raja in it as well. I'm so glad I got to hear the background of it. But obviously that wasn't the first one, you know. That was just the first one, I mean, and after that you wrote many more and then you also got awarded, you know, for your book, which was the Marty Award. Right, tell us about that too.

Peta-Gaye: 44:55

Well, the first book was actually a book of adult short stories but I never marketed it as well as I should. I've learned a lot since then, but Raja and all the children's books came out of having children. Now the Marty Awards. For that award I submitted a story called Bushy Head. It was a children's book, and I also submitted one of the stories from my new collection of short fiction and I got this award. I'm so happy that the town that I live in, the city, mississauga, mississauga Arts Council puts on the Marty Awards. They really recognize artists, not just writers but singers, dancers, and I got established literary award. Those awards really mean a lot to me because it's sort of a validation not to give up, because I think writing you could easily give up. It's hard work, especially if you have a day job. You're already at the computer all day To think of going home to be in front of the computer again. It takes so much perseverance and those awards really mean to me. Don't give up. I know it's hard, but just keep going.

Gurasis: 46:08

Yeah, I remember listening to your podcast also. You know, with the mississauga podcast there were certain podcasts and that also you said the same thing that this journey of an artist is very lonely, despite the kind of artist you are, and having these recognitions, sort of like validates the work that you do, because it's a very lonely journey. You know you're just in a room by yourself. You know creating this just in a room by yourself, you know creating this sort of kind of like, pouring your heart out, pouring your creativity out, and then when something or someone actually listens to it or reads it and validates it, you feel appreciated, you feel valued in certain way, right. So I remember listening to that as well.

Gurasis: 46:46

Yeah, absolutely yeah, I highly encourage, you know, our listeners to basically check out those podcasts you have been on. I really enjoy listening to some of your quotes as well. I won't quote everything here, but I will definitely put some of them in the show notes for listeners to see. Um, thank you. So, pete, you did talk briefly about, you know, bushy head, and I want to talk to you about two of your books. One was bushy head. Obviously in 2021, I believe you uh put it out and you know that, that title and at that, that's sort of the the things that I have learned about it, about the bushy head, I wanted to tell a little more about that, and I also saw this video where I believe it was your daughter who donated her hair. You know as well, so tell me all about it. You know, whatever you can share with our listeners.

Peta-Gaye: 47:38

Bushy Head is one of my favorite children's books that I've written because it came out of first of all having a daughter with very curly hair. So many people tried to tell me to tame it. I had people telling me to straighten it, even people from my own community saying that I should comb it properly.

Peta-Gaye: 48:03

But there was just such beauty in seeing this free little toddler running around with this mass of curls and I never wanted her to feel, as I did when I was young, that something was wrong with her hair, that you had to, because I mean, when I was young my hair was straightened, it was set on rollers. There was no freedom in that, couldn't go swimming because you know, my mom would say, well, I just did your hair. My mom would say, well, I just did your hair. Straight hair was obviously the more desired hair to have. As you know, all these things have come out of colonialism. I did not want that for my daughter. So I knew that one day I was going to write a book. But again, the story was not fully formed. But when my niece in the United States and when my niece in Canada and my daughter were all teased at school for having this kind of hair.

Peta-Gaye: 49:02

they were all told they couldn't be princesses on the playground because princesses didn't have curly hair. I knew right there and then that this was going to be a book, but when two of them donated their hair to make human hair wigs for children who did not have hair, I thought the character in Bushy Head is definitely going to do the same. So that's where the whole thing came out of. You know, embracing the hair that you have on your head and just putting it out there into the world, that you can't change your hair. It does not say anything about your professionalism or who you are as a person, and I think these core beliefs need to be given to children. The younger the better. It's so much better to have that self-worth when you're young than trying to unlearn all the negative messages that you've got from childhood when you're older. So this was the purpose of Bushyhead.

Gurasis: 50:08

I would like to get into your current role that you have, you know, at Humber College, where you are the project coordinator of the OSLT program. And I think before that you spent like you just discovered this, you know back in your time and then you said, okay, I'm going to come back to Canada and I'm going to go and teach English as a second language. And you said, ok, I'm going to come back to Canada and I'm going to go and teach English as a second language. You did that for 15 years, right. And your passion for immigrants, the newcomers, and your own personal experiences led you to do that. And following that, you decided to come to Humber College, right? So so tell me more about this program and why you decide to get into Humber as well program and why you decide to get into Humber as well. And I remember you were telling me briefly that it's because, again, something very close to helping newcomers surviving and living in this new world. But tell us all the listeners would like to know.

Peta-Gaye: 50:59

So OSLT is Occupation Specific Language Training, and this is an absolute must as an immigrant, especially my experience in Norway. If you don't have the language skills, you can live in the country, but I don't believe you truly feel at home. I think language is essential, which is why I wanted to teach English as a second language to newcomers, and I did that for 15 years at Malta Neighborhood Services. I needed a change from that and I discovered the OSLT program. I'm the project coordinator, so I don't actually teach anymore, but I love the fact that this is career related. That's the first thing that most of us are looking for right when we come to a new country. Yes, we want to learn general English, which you do need for the OSLT program. You have to have Canadian language benchmarks of six or higher, but we want occupation-related English. So OSLT is funded by Immigration, refugees and Citizenship Canada, ircc, and it's coordinated by Colleges Ontario to about 12 colleges in Ontario that offer different occupations. At Humber we offer project management, technology and entrepreneurship and sales and marketing.

Peta-Gaye: 52:22

So a lot of people ask me well, I don't have Canadian experience. You do not need Canadian experience. That's the beauty of the OSLT course. It's your past experience or education that counts. You have the knowledge or you have the education and you want to be in the same field here in Canada. You're only missing the language component. So OSLT strives to give newcomers the language component so that they can do well on interviews, they can enter the workforce and be confident when they're talking with their supervisors, when they're talking with their clients, with their coworkers and when they're networking. I believe that speaking the language and feeling confident is what is missing from a lot of newcomers when they come here. If English is not their first language, or French I should say French for those going to Quebec, as I am in Canada but it really supports newcomers in their quest to improve their workplace-related English.

Peta-Gaye: 53:36

Okay, and how long is usually this program? It is about three months, 180 hours, three times a week in the day, so newcomers can expect to put in about 12 hours per week. It's online, so time with a teacher as well as independent activities. Newcomers must live in Ontario. They must be permanent residents or convention refugees to attend this program. Yeah.

Gurasis: 54:06

And I believe this is a free program right. Yeah, and I believe this is a free program right.

Peta-Gaye: 54:09

Oh, absolutely. It's funded by IRCC, completely free, as long as you are eligible. You know you have the correct language benchmarks, because if you're too low, this would not be the program for you. Yet until you, you know, increase your level of English. So the benchmarks, the correct immigration status. Did I say live in Ontario? Yes, yes, okay.

Gurasis: 54:35

So if you take it for example, you know I have, I'm a landed immigrant, I'm a permanent resident and I come to Humber. So tell us, like what does this program entails?

Peta-Gaye: 54:44

You can. You would be learning how to introduce yourself professionally confidently. You'll be learning culturally specific things related to your field of work. It's not only language, it's also Canadian workplace culture, which is such a big component. Oh, absolutely. People want to know what is expected of me in the Canadian workplace. You know you are doing fluency tasks. It's such an important part of a newcomer's journey if they're really serious about getting into the field that they worked in in their country absolutely.

Gurasis: 55:44

I think just finding the right words to basically articulate the value that you can put to the table is really important. Like, for example, I used to use the word uh, oh, you know, I used to work for adani. It's like a big conglomerate in india, right, and they would say adani, what is that, you know? And then I understood okay. Using the words like, oh, it's an indian multinational conglomerate, they're like, oh, okay, so that's what you have worked for. So I think finding the right words also really matters how you convey the value that you can bring.

Peta-Gaye: 56:14

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And then people you know, we have this thing where we just we like what's familiar and when someone is familiar with the terminology, you immediately feel this person is, um, you know, competent and can handle working in a Canadian workplace.

Gurasis: 56:37

Absolutely.

Peta-Gaye: 56:39

So they have the knowledge already. Many of them are so highly when I say them, I mean our clients they are so highly qualified. And they're just missing this one thing. We're here to give them that one thing so that they can go to that interview and just be confident and remember the vocabulary. You know, they've practiced the fluency with the teacher. So our hope is that OSLT is going to lead to newcomers getting jobs in their fields and ultimately becoming successful in Canada.

Gurasis: 57:17

Absolutely. And what are the other? There are, I believe, two branches of Humber Polytechnique, right Tell us like where they can basically do this program.

Peta-Gaye: 57:26

So our department is community outreach and workforce development. That's a long word. We're a little bit separate from other departments. That's ours, but people who want to reach us can go to newtocanadahumberca Because, apart from the language component now, which is OSLT, the bridging programs will give really valuable job search support to people. We have an engineering bridging program, supply chain, it and there's another NET. If newcomers go to newtocanadahumberca they are going to see so much support that can help them in their journey. They register for an information session and you know we call them back or we email and we are here to really help people reach their goals Not just me but all my colleagues. We're just so passionate about working with newcomers and helping them to reach their goals.

Gurasis: 58:36

How many sessions are usually done in one year, and which months do they start?

Peta-Gaye: 58:42

So we start every three months, so we're doing, yeah. So our next session is December 2nd and we are offering for the first time, all three courses project management, technology and entrepreneurship, sales and marketing. Right now. We have had an overwhelming demand for project management, but we still have space in entrepreneurship and sales and marketing and in technology. So if people are interested oslt at humberca Listeners can contact me and we can see what we can do.

Gurasis: 59:20

And do you have any testimonials, any feedback? What have people said once they have graduated from this particular program?

Peta-Gaye: 59:29

We have a lot of testimonials, but there is this one that we're so proud of Galina. She took the OSLT program. She got a job shortly after. So we're very proud of that, and we love when our alumni come back and share their stories with us Because, you know, that becomes part of our testimonials Absolutely yeah, Because you know that becomes part of our testimonials.

Gurasis: 59:56

Absolutely, and did she or anybody has ever told you about the challenges that they had and how this program has really helped them overcome certain challenges?

Peta-Gaye: 1:00:06

Absolutely. I think that we're living right now in a bit of a difficult time in terms of finding jobs, keeping jobs, and we've had a lot of people again give us feedback that they are so much more confident to go after the jobs. Because the first thing in a job search is that you have to have the confidence to write that resume and cover letter and to make the phone call if required, do the interview and be confident in your English. All these things are before you even get a job. So once you feel confident enough to do the first hurdle of job search or job searching, job searching Then when you get that call for the interview again, OSLT will help you with your interview techniques and then when you get offered the job, you actually feel more confident on the job. You've already gotten past the two hurdles of job searching, the interview process. Now you're at the job and language learning never stops right.

Gurasis: 1:01:18

A hundred percent, yeah, if english is not your first language, you're going to be learning every day we at humber are just part happy to be part of that journey but I highly encourage, you know, if any of our listeners who are landed immigrants or already in canada or they just want to refresh their skills and kind of like brush up on their language skills for getting into the workforce, I highly encourage you to check this out and, like we said, the links to everything that we are talking will be put in the show notes and you can definitely visit that and enroll in the program as well at any point if you like.

Peta-Gaye: 1:01:51

It's a great fit for you guys and you know, just to give advice to anyone who might feel a bit down about this whole process of getting a job in a new country, it's easy for me to say, don't get down, but it really takes perseverance. It takes learning from other people. You know, don't be afraid to ask what other people have done. There's so many things that are new now making sure your LinkedIn profile is updated, maybe posting some content, you know, become an expert in your field. There's so many things that people can do and maybe you might not expect it, but you may take a completely different career direction. You're just growing. That's all I can say. You know, it may not be what someone expected when they come to Canada, but you're just always growing and things work out.

Gurasis: 1:02:50

A hundred percent and there is help out there. Don't hesitate to reach out. I know we do have this tendency to be within ourselves and in front of our computers, but there is really help. People on LinkedIn are amazing. There are so many, you know. Community groups are there, networking opportunities, events are there. Don't miss out on that. Must visit there and connect with people and make connections, because one connection can really help you. You know, go really far in your life.

Peta-Gaye: 1:03:16

That is so true. One connection is all you need.

Gurasis: 1:03:21

Absolutely. Yeah, okay, So thank you so much for being on the podcast and sharing all about your journey and, obviously you know, educating our listeners about the programs that Humber Polytechnic offers December onwards. So thank you so much and I really, really enjoyed this conversation.

Peta-Gaye: 1:03:40

Thank you so much for your time as well and for making me feel so relaxed and welcome. I was really happy to share, thank you, thank you so much.