Sindh: 0:00

in the north. If you said you were a South Indian, they would say, oh, you're a Madrasi. You know that you're a Madrasi.

Sindh: 0:07

Not every South Indian is a Madrasi

Gurasis: 0:09

A lot of things I think I have learned about India after coming to Canada. I didn't know for the longest time that people in the south don't speak Hindi

Sindh: 0:17

US immigration policy has not been updated in the last 33 years.

Sindh: 0:22

Imagine what the world was 30 years back. Smoking on flights was acceptable 30 years back. That's the era we're talking about here. I was walking from a metro station to meet somebody at a restaurant and on the way I must have heard at least four or five different languages on the short walk and that was really exciting for me. Who are not immigrants don't understand that you have to have solid ground under your feet with regard to your legal status to make any decision in life. Everybody is a product of where they have been raised and the context in which they've been raised. If you really want to create some kind of change, attacking their way of life is not going to get you very far.

Gurasis: 1:22

Embarking on the immigration journey often feels like navigating uncharted waters, each border crossing a unique tale of anticipation and belonging. As I had eminence about my past as a national student, the memories of long queues and interrogative glances resurface To the point once returning from India. I remember an officer asked me do you know the metro station? Era college Oof, that was a tough one. Obviously I knew the metro station, but in that moment you don't expect such questions. But then I understood in that moment that expect the unexpected. However, the narrative shifted, mirroring the transformation from an anxious immigrant to a welcomed permanent resident of Canada. The border became a smoother passage, akin to scanning a passport and presenting the PR card, meeting with a warm welcome home. It's a sentiment etched in the immigrant experience, a transition from fear to familiarity.

Gurasis: 2:21

This relatable immigration anxiety found a voice through our guest's journey when, once returning to Toronto, a question escaped into the air Will they ask me where I work? A reflex that was born from the conditioning of previous immigration encounters. Through her lens, we explored the intricate dance between anxiety and assurance. The script flipped from apprehension to warmth. The vulnerability of questioning one's place contrasts with the reassurance found in those two simple words welcome home. It's a tale that encapsulates the broader immigrant experience, where the border is not just a physical line but a threshold of emotions, fears and eventual triumphs. The journey is not merely about physical relocation. It's a metamorphosis of the soul. It's navigating through uncertainty, embracing the unknown and ultimately finding a sense of belonging. In sharing her experience, our guest contributes to the collective narrative of those who, like her, have transformed the fearsome immigration journey into a heartfelt welcome. Please welcome Sindhu Mahadevan.

Sindh: 3:31

It's lovely to be here, Gurashish.

Gurasis: 3:33

Welcome, welcome, sindhu, welcome to the podcast. Very excited for this conversation. Me too, I've been looking forward to this, okay, so in my season two, I have decided to turn up the fun factor a little bit, so I'm going to start with a little bit some fun questions, okay, so ready, uh-huh, okay, yes, absolutely okay. So our first question is what's your go-to breakfast?

Sindh: 3:57

ah, my go-to breakfast. Yeah, it depends on how much time I have. If I don't have a lot of time, it is methi thepla which is methi ka paratha, which is pre-made just to be clear.

Gurasis: 4:10

So is it like something you eat on a regular basis?

Sindh: 4:15

I do, I do. It's pretty much every couple of weeks. Yeah, that's my breakfast.

Gurasis: 4:21

Okay, interesting. And with tea coffee, what is it? Are you a tea person, coffee person?

Sindh: 4:27

I am a tea person, uh, but coffee is uh quicker, easier, more conducive to work, I think. Uh, I I like to joke. You know that tea is for friends, and and then coffee is for work you know yeah so yeah, uh, depending on the use case, I guess okay okay, perfect.

Gurasis: 4:48

So next is share a favorite song or a dialogue or a movie and tell us why it's significant to you oh my, you know I'm really bad at these movie song questions.

Sindh: 5:00

Um, I don't watch that many movies. Uh, I'm much more of a like documentary, docu-series kind of person, so nothing's really coming up to mind right now.

Gurasis: 5:12

I'm drawing a blank okay, if not, tell us about a quote that resonates with you a lot, and why is that?

Sindh: 5:20

this one. We walked into a restaurant, my husband and I in Wisconsin, and I don't even know who this quote is by, but it was on the wall and it said in making a living, don't forget to make a life. I saw it maybe just once or twice over the course of that evening and it has never left me. You know, because growing up in India you know with that middle class values. We're taught the value of everything, but I think sometimes you can lose sight of the bigger picture.

Gurasis: 5:59

Absolutely, you know yeah, I love that. That's very interesting. It is so if you had to teach us one phrase in your mother tongue what would it be and what does it mean?

Sindh: 6:16

There's an idiom that says whether the banana tree falls on the fence or the fence falls on the banana tree, ultimately the banana tree is the one that's injured.

Gurasis: 6:30

Yeah.

Sindh: 6:32

So the idea behind that is if you are vulnerable, it doesn't matter what the situation is, you're the one that's going to get hurt.

Gurasis: 6:40

Yes.

Sindh: 6:40

Right, and I think there's a lot of profoundness behind some of these seemingly village sayings. Right, my father was just full of these village sayings. He was born and raised in a village and a lot of what he said I didn't understand it at the time, but I think they hold a lot of wisdom beyond just the superficial nature of what they sound and how do you say that in your mother tongue? I cannot get the word for hurt, but it's like it is the banana tree that gets hurt.

Gurasis: 7:25

Okay, I'm not gonna try to repeat that, I'm not gonna butcher it, no.

Sindh: 7:30

I'm barely getting it right.

Gurasis: 7:34

Okay, okay, perfect. So now, lastly, if you could teleport to a particular place from your home country, or maybe the places you have lived, one would it be, and what would you do?

Sindh: 7:46

it would have to be UT Dallas, which is where I did my master's. As an international student, I had some of my best days at UT Dallas. It was a clueless me hanging around with a bunch of equally clueless international students and we had a whale of a time. Nobody really understood what they were doing, especially in their first year, other than, you know, going through schoolwork. It was so much discovery. We had some truly hilarious experiences and it was just a very supportive set of friends, a very new, novel environment, and we were just young enough to be more excited than terrified. You know, there comes an age where too much novelty is just scary. You know, I think we were at that right age where we were more excited than scared.

Gurasis: 8:41

Okay, I'll get back to that. We'll'll circle back on that. Before that, I want to take you back to the time is spent in India. Tell us a little bit about your formative years, and how was it like just growing up there?

Sindh: 8:54

I was brought up in Ahmedabad and my schooling and early life was all in Ahmedabad. Part 2.0 was in Coimbatore where I went for my undergrad, for my bachelor's degree in biotechnology. So I'll split the story into two. I am ethnically South Indian. I was raised in Ahmedabad. At that time I didn't think of this in sort of immigration terms, but now I do.

Sindh: 9:24

So being in Ahmedabad was very interesting. I was fluent in Hindi and outside of my home I was leading the you know typical kid life. But inside of my home we were a very culturally South Indian family. So in hindsight I think there was a lot of code switching going on. You know, you try to fit in in your school years with the Hindi speaking crowd, with that culture, with that understanding, with whatever social aesthetic is popular at the time, right. But when you come back home there are very different values, very different understanding of the surroundings that you're living in. So that was most of my time in Ahmedabad. I remember it to be a happy, fun childhood for the most part. Of course there's this struggle of fitting in as a South Indian right, and I realized quite early although I didn't have the vocabulary to say it that people don't have a very strong understanding of people who are not like them. Right South Indians were viewed as people who just ate idli sambar, and that was it.

Gurasis: 10:35

That's like a generic view, right.

Sindh: 10:39

And it stops there. You know it doesn't go beyond that. There, you know this, it doesn't go beyond that. So that's probably the thing that has led me to investigate the immigration immigrant experience so much is because there's so much depth to these experiences.

Sindh: 10:53

Right, experience 2.0 in India was going to Coimbatore. This was like somewhat of a homecoming because I am an ethnic Tamil speaker. So when we, when I, went to Coimbatore to do my undergrad, I was really shocked at the just the sheer culture shift within Coimbatore. I went to a very conservative college campus. The girls were not allowed outside of the college uh hostel, not even campus outside um after six o'clock and coming from amdabad, which is a fairly liberal city, you know for for women and stuff, I was really shocked at all of these rules. We had dress codes, we had to wear salwar kameezes and it was just a whole other world.

Sindh: 11:49

Right, I was just surrounded by a very different way of living and there was some adjustment. I think it was not easy initially the first year, but then I'm also, in hindsight, very grateful for that experience because I think it opens you up to the idea that you don't have all the answers in the world. You know, other people have very different ways of living the good life and, yeah, your formula will not apply to everybody and I'm very glad I learned that lesson early. Although it was, it was painful initially.

Gurasis: 12:24

Talk a little bit more about that. What do you mean by that? Like what formula? What if you can give us, like an example of something?

Sindh: 12:29

so when I went in, I think I managed to alienate a few people saying, as youngsters do in their own sort of brash way, that you guys are so conservative, you know, like you've no idea, ahmedabad was like that and it was so cool and I had, you know, so much freedom and what is this jail life we're living now?

Sindh: 12:52

And I have always been somebody that has not been very shy about airing my views, especially among my own peers, and surprisingly, that didn't win me a lot of, you know, acceptance and I think gradually I realized that everybody is a product of where they have been raised and the context in which they've been raised. And if you really want to create some kind of change, attacking their way of life is not going to get you very far, absolutely. You know, maybe talking to them, maybe trying to meet them halfway, maybe seeing where you and them have more in common, is probably going to get you farther, and almost always there's more in common than there is difference yeah you know, and and when you said that you're very uh, you are very vocal in terms of putting your opinions out is there a time, or maybe some situation, where that might have put you in trouble?

Sindh: 13:53

I think people misunderstood uh, misunderstood where that was coming from. Okay, I think it's perceived as arrogance sometimes, especially when you're younger. When you're older, it's perceived as arrogance sometimes, especially when you're younger. When you're older it's different. When you're older, I think people understand a little more the legitimacy of your opinions, that it's rooted in experience and things like that.

Gurasis: 14:15

And I think also when you grow up, your vocabulary also changes and you understand and you learn a better way of conveying your thoughts rather than being completely blunt. And I think I can relate to that because I was sort of the similar person.

Sindh: 14:27

Yeah, I don't think bluntness was the problem, but I think I was trying to convince them with the assumption that I was right and they were wrong okay you know that they were the ones that needed to be educated, taught, told that there was a better way, right?

Sindh: 14:50

It never occurs to younger people that maybe this is a two-way street. That is something you learn, I think, later on. So bluntness was not the problem. I think I've been a fairly sensitive person overall, uh, but where that's misunderstood is that, um, I think young people in in in the indian context, it takes a while before you you can earn the right to have strong opinions. Right, there's a what have you accomplished in life for you to think that you can have such strong opinions? You know?

Sindh: 15:28

yeah once you have a job, once you have a few accomplishments behind your name, then you can have your opinions, not as a college student who has not even a single alphabet behind her name, you know yeah, it's like you know how.

Gurasis: 15:43

Uh, the code. I think that can apply here also. It says that don't talk about money. If you have literally zero dollars in your account, you know you're not the right person to talk about it. So I think this applies here as well.

Sindh: 15:53

Yeah, I think so.

Gurasis: 15:55

So I think there's some of that misunderstanding, um, sometimes yeah, okay, and is there something that people might not know about south india? Like you mentioned, people have like a very limited understanding of the culture that people might not know, that you would like to share.

Sindh: 16:10

But there are also way more languages than Tamil, malayalam, telugu and Kannada. There is also Tulu. There's also all these regional variations of languages and within these big states of Tamil Nadu, andhra Pradesh, even Kerala, there's all these sub varieties of people that have very different cultural understandings, very different just ways of life, and I think they tend to look at the South as a monolithic block. You know, language sometimes is a great, great indicator of thought, you know. So, for example, in the north, uh, if you said you were a south indian, they would say, oh, you know that you're a madrasi. Not every south indian is a madrasi, right? So I think that diminishing of the sheer variability in the south is something that happens a lot in the north and that's something I would like people to appreciate.

Gurasis: 17:24

Okay, I think it sort of happens from the north also, right, since both of us are talking about this, I think we have those stereotypes within India, also about the northern people, that everybody is non-vegetarian and Bhangra and all those certain things, whereas majority of the people in the north actually are vegetarian, if you see that you know the actual demographics and actual percentage of people who eat non-vegetarian or not. So I think that's something. I think that's why I think we're having these conversations to break those molds, not like being an immigrant, but even like within the same country. There are a lot of things I think I have learned about India after coming to Canada, just because I was able to meet with people just like yourself and many other people from the south and I had no idea about their cultures, or even I didn't know for the longest time that people in the south don't speak Hindi. I swear I didn't know about that. I got to know after interacting and, you know, being friends with few people I met here in Canada.

Sindh: 18:22

Yeah, yeah you are not the only person I've heard say this that they actually learned more about India after coming to the US or to Canada, because I think they're just their cohort of people expanded, it just exploded really. People suddenly all over India they were interacting with and and that really changed how they saw their own country which is beautiful.

Gurasis: 18:49

Oh, it's amazing. It's probably the best use of being in a diverse place like Canada. You can make off. It's not limited to people from other parts of the country, even like what your own country. Meeting these people, having these conversations. You just learn so much and that's the such a beautiful thing about being in Canada for sure. Yeah, it is okay. Now let's just pivot towards your career choice. Tell me, why did you get into this career, or was at any point a pressure of getting into a certain career from your family? Was that a part of the conversation?

Sindh: 19:26

I'm one of the few you know lucky people in in India and from our culture that can say that I didn't have a lot of pressure in choosing my career. I was free to study what I wanted. The only thing that really constrained what I could study, I think, was that we don't really have exposure to a lot of what we can do. Right. There are these few things that are laid out to us in popular conversation, popular culture and all of that as potential careers, and among them, the thing that I was interested in was biology, and I wanted to study something related with biology. I briefly considered the idea of doing something related with writing. You know, as you know, I really enjoy writing and the only thing I could think of was journalism or law, and the only law I knew of was people in court, right. I didn't know that there was such a thing as constitutional law, where you are thinking about like constitutionality and things like that. Or I didn't know about public policy that has a lot of these aspects. So to that extent, the bouquet was small.

Sindh: 20:46

I really enjoy biology. I still do, so I decided to do my undergrad in biotech engineering, so I chose to study that in Coimbatore and that was my undergrad For master's. I carried on along the same lines. I did my master's in molecular and cell biology at UT Dallas. That would have translated into generally translates into a research type career, whether in academia or industry that doesn't matter, or industry that doesn't matter. But I sort of fell out of love with that, given the realities of what I saw in lab life and the fact that it's a very difficult path for immigrants. The compensation is not great, it's a difficult life even on a good day, and getting visa sponsorship is very, very difficult and lab life was starting to feel very. Yeah, I kind of fell out of love and I wanted to be involved in a little more sort of practical I want to see the results now sort of industry. And that's how I found quality assurance and now that's still the career that I'm in.

Gurasis: 22:10

I am a quality assurance professional in the medical device industry okay, and since you briefly mentioned about, you know your time in US and studying in UT. Your master's in molecule and cell biology tell me. I believe it was in 2012 when you decided to move there, but what influenced the decision to go there and why not any other country?

Sindh: 22:32

I actually did consider other countries. I considered Singapore primarily because of its proximity to India, and the quality of their education is also really good. They have some very good life sciences degrees. The reason I didn't pursue Singapore was that the admit that they were willing to give me was for PhD, and I was not sure that I wanted to do PhD right after my undergrad. That was a leap too far for me at that point and in hindsight I'm glad I didn't make it because clearly I'm not cut out for research, as I have discovered since.

Sindh: 23:12

The other option was the US, and there I think I can admit now that it wasn't any kind of data-driven decision. I think it was more the illusion of familiarity. You hear about the US so much as a 90s kid in pop culture. You know somebody's aunt, so and so cousin. There were members of my own extended family there, so it just feels like it should be accessible for you too. You can make a life there because of the social proof that so many others have also made a life there. I personally didn't know anybody in the UK. I had heard that it's hard to get jobs there. Australia I had heard some stuff about with regard to, I think right at that time there were a few reports of racism in Australia, so I think that basically disqualified it for me. Um, so that's sort of how I landed on the us.

Gurasis: 24:12

But to say that it was some extensive data-driven decision, I think would be just just not true okay, so you know, on the podcast we have discovered a lot about the international student life, of being in Canada, and I want to tell us about the life of a national student in the US and you, briefly, was talking earlier also and you also called that you were just clueless initially, you and your peers. So talk a little bit more about that and the life in even like in Texas. How was that like?

Sindh: 24:43

So coming to the US as an international student, it's a very orderly experience. It's step one, step two, step three. I'm sure that's very similar to your experience as an international student in Canada. What that does is that it leads you to believe that the rest of immigration will also be like that. It's not that anybody says that, but you logically extrapolate that the rest of immigration will be like that of friends.

Sindh: 25:28

When I came to the US, I was quite diligent. I did a lot of research on jobs and internships and expense and all of that. The reason I chose Texas is that I didn't want to spend a lot of money on living expenses and places like Boston and California can be very expensive for students to live at. So I chose Texas. Life in Texas well, I was in Dallas. Dallas is not the same as Texas because it's a fairly diverse place. I have never felt unwelcome or strange in Dallas at all.

Sindh: 26:02

Utd was a nice campus. It's not the greatest of all time, but it was a perfectly welcoming campus. I don't think I have any complaints there. The life sciences course and programming not the best. It's not what UTD is known for. But I had a great experience. I learned a lot both inside of the classroom and outside.

Sindh: 26:25

I think the cluelessness part of it emerges because every immigrant, I think, starts from scratch with regard to the job hunt and the internship hunting and all of that, and I think we don't realize just how uphill that is, with no connections, without an understanding of just how tilted the playing field is because of sponsorship reasons, particularly in the US, and we are sort of the student experience primes you to believe that the rest of US experience is also going to be very orderly and smooth. You get your h1, then you file for a green card, and then you get the green card, and then you live happily ever after. And yeah, that's not at all how it works. And gradually those walls start to crumble one after another and it's a very distressing experience. There's just no other way to put it.

Gurasis: 27:20

And you know how we are like allowed here to work 20 hours a week as a student. Is that the same case in the US? How does that work?

Sindh: 27:27

No, you are allowed to work part time, but only on campus, and a narrow exception to that is that you're allowed to have internships, but only if they are related strictly to your degree. There are no off-campus jobs allowed outside of campus. I should add that not everybody will agree with me when I say that the journey is. Nobody will say it's easy. No immigrant in the US will say it's easy. But there's a narrow slice that managed to make it to EB1, which is an exceptional category. It used to be that if you were in that exceptional category, that sort of a fast track to a green card. It is not easy to get there, but there are people who go through that route who have a better time of it. But yeah, us immigration is not an easy system.

Gurasis: 28:28

Not at all yeah, I know how you have said in one of your articles. Like you know, there are some indisputable immemorial facts in our world that chocolate is nice, puppies are awesome and us immigration is a raging dumpster fire u.

Sindh: 28:43

US immigration policy has not been updated in the last 33 years, close to it three decades. In this time, the number of work visas has remained constant. The number of green cards has remained constant. Meanwhile, the economy has grown tremendously. The population, proportionately, of immigrants coming in, has grown. You know, everything has grown.

Sindh: 29:09

Imagine what the world was 30 years back. Right, smoking on flights was acceptable 30 years back. That's the era we're talking about here. Oh, really, I didn't know that. Okay, in the US smoking in flights was acceptable 30 years back. So that's how out of touch US immigration policy is with today. We have come to a point in the US where people who came as immigrants on the most common category of the green card they filed their children were dependents with them and they filed their children, outgrew that dependent status and they are now risking being undocumented in that country. That is how bad things have gotten. That's why the view I expressed there is hardly, you know, unique. A lot of people will agree with me here. The wait times for the most common channel of getting to permanent residency now exceeds the productive life of human beings.

Gurasis: 30:19

for indian nationals yeah, like you also mentioned that it's like living on like a borrowed time. You don't really know when you'll be asked to just go back yeah, that's.

Sindh: 30:30

That's pretty much what it is because, unlike the Canadian work permit, if you lose your job in 60 days you're you either find a new job and transfer your work permit or you're out wow, that's like a scary situation to be in, for sure, yeah especially your whole life yeah, yeah, absolutely okay.

Gurasis: 30:50

Now, sidhu, I would like to get into your decision to move to canada. I think you applied for pr in march 2020 and and then you have said you were left in living, living, you will. It was like you were living in a limbo, because pandemics make things really, really, really hard, but then eventually, in September, something happened. But tell us about that. One year, you know, like you said, like living on a border time and everything was complicated. You don't know when you'll be kicked out. So how was that one year of waiting for the PR, like we?

Sindh: 31:22

applied in March 2020, right before the declaration of the pandemic, so, timing wise, it really couldn't have been much worse than that.

Sindh: 31:34

We applied in March 2020 and, all things said, we got our visa in hand sometime around early late September early October, I think, was the timeline that we got the visa in hand to come to Canada, 2021. So it was a year and a half where we heard basically nothing and the expectation at that time was still six months. That's what the website showed. They probably not updated it. So, between March and September of 2020, we expected that, even with some delay, maybe it's nine months, maybe it's a year it was really after March 2021 that we started to get really concerned, because at this point, there were some vaccines being given out, there was some limited travel being eased, you know, there were some restrictions starting to be reconsidered across the board, and yet our application was just not moving and I was unable to work at this time time. So I had not been able to work since 2018, actually in the US. So, while my husband was able to work, I was the one that was really really anxious to get out and get my life started.

Sindh: 32:57

It was truly limbo, because at some point, we were going to have to think about what to do if Canada didn't come through, because you can't just endlessly wait, right, you have to decide what to do in the US. Should we go ahead and get a work visa? Should we continue our stay here? Should we just abandon everything and leave? Should we go to Canada? It was just a time where you were in stasis. You couldn't take any decision right, and that's why I described the word limbo, because I think people who are not immigrants don't understand that. You have to have solid ground under your feet with regard to yeah, um, just your legal status to make any decision in life right. If you don't know where you're going to be six months from now, how do you take any decisions right of growth in life?

Gurasis: 33:57

that's the thing that made it very difficult yeah, you know, when you said that, I think it reminds me of this brief conversation we had, like how we have to really be like three steps ahead, like what are you going to do next within your immigration process, and I think it's also it reminds me again of my time. You know, when my work point was expiring, I had like two months left and I was just trying to find, get some ray of hope something happens. But I think obviously pandemic was also the added pressure, sindhu, I think which made things really, really hard and it there were times, like you said, you know, no, no update, no update. Details were mentioned on the website. You don't know when you're gonna listen to the next response, so I think I'm sure that limbo is probably the best word to describe that time.

Sindh: 34:43

Yeah, you know, the interesting thing is, when you're outside of canada, you also don't have easy access to that number that you can call uh, although the wait times on those numbers are pretty crazy that that ircc has, yeah, that the hotline that you can call. You don't have access to that, so we had to create a Canadian number using this service because we didn't have a Canadian number. Right, you can only call using a Canadian number and we would wake up like everybody else early in the morning, get on the line. 90% of the times it would never lead to anyone and it would just get cut. It was. It's the lack of information, honestly, that, yeah, that causes that problem.

Gurasis: 35:29

If they could have just had some kind of estimate and updates, it would have made life a lot better for for a lot of people, yeah, at that time and I'm sure, like there are a lot of people we said, like my acquaintances, who are still awaiting for their PR since like 2021, you know who applied with me and you know, by God's grace, I got it like in a couple of months, but they are still awaiting and there is no estimate time when they're going to get a response from them.

Sindh: 36:00

Yes, ircc has suffered from long wait times ever since the pandemic, and the pandemic is just not a good enough excuse anymore. They have millions of cases in the backlog still. Yeah, they've really suffered and doesn't seem to be getting better. That's where the focus should be of resources.

Gurasis: 36:23

Okay, and then finally, but you finally came in October 2021 to Canada. So tell us about your first day and what were the initial thoughts and emotions when you landed.

Sindh: 36:35

Gurashish. I will never forget my whole life the day I left the USs and I came to canada, especially because we drove across the border. Uh, we didn't, we didn't fly. I remember when I took up a job at metronic, which was in minnesota, somebody told me that before 9-11, they, they could go to Canada, you know, drive across the border with just their US driver's license. And that just blew my mind, you know, because in our world, in your world and my world, borders are these very hostile places where, if you go there, somebody will blow your brains out you know, and the idea that you could just drive across a border, and you know, it was just so easy.

Sindh: 37:28

It was something that I put on my bucket list that day, that one day I will drive across the US-Canada border just to see what it is like. And I don't't know. They say in hindi uh, that, in what terrible hour I made that wish. Uh, that dream came true with me leaving the us. We drove across the border. Uh, it was on the on the blue water bridge connecting uh sarnia to port huron, and as we drove across, it was immense joy and total like real sadness and everything that had happened. You know why did it have to be?

Gurasis: 38:21

So, difficult.

Sindh: 38:24

It was not sadness that I was not able to build a life in the US. I was okay with that. I still am. It's really it's fine, yeah. But why did that journey have to be so arduous? You know, yeah, if I was to come to Canada, why couldn't I it have happened earlier? You know, canada, why couldn't I it have happened earlier? Uh, you know, with less heartache, with, with not this whole pandemic related complexity in between um, with not being able to work for three years, it was just so much piled on right yeah so we came to the blue water bridge, we came, we pulled up to, I pulled up, my husband was driving the other.

Sindh: 38:59

Um, like the truck, the u-haul truck and I pull up to. I pulled up, my husband was driving the other like the truck, the U-Haul truck and I pull up to the to the person who checks your paperwork and everything. And because we presented our landing documents as permanent resident, they were so welcoming and that was just not processing for me, know, it's like, why are they being so nice? You know it just doesn't make sense. I was used to skepticism, a little bit of hostility, you know I was not used to this kind of thing. And she gave me back my papers and I let out a sigh, you know, just of relief. And she asked me something like, are you okay? Or she said something like you'll be fine, don't worry. And I was really surprised at that level of, you know, just human to human connection between a border officer and an immigrant. I was not used to that.

Gurasis: 39:58

Yeah, okay, isn't that a Canadian thing to be that warm?

Sindh: 40:01

No, I've heard it both ways. Border officers are. I mean, they're there for a reason, right, they're there to you know, catch things that shouldn't be going across. So I can imagine being a little bit jaded is kind of part of their job. But in that moment it was just really genuine and and I was not expecting that, I really wasn't okay, very memorable. I will never forget that experience.

Gurasis: 40:31

I'm sure about that. I think that's a great segue to another quote from your article. You said that I went from living in a country with which I had forged a relationship but resisted accepting me, to a country that I wasn't emotionally connected to, but had already accepted me. Talk a little bit more about that.

Sindh: 40:53

I think the strangest thing to me about Canada was when I received the permanent resident documents. I had never visited Canada ever. So there was a little disconnect between the complete opposite idea that I had lived in the US for nine years. I have really understood many aspects of the US politically, historically, immigration, wise, the people there, just what makes the country tick, you know, sort of like India, and the system had refused to accept or give a sense of belonging to me. Right, and here I was, coming into a country with which I had no relationship, no connection, no emotional understanding of its people, its culture, its you know, its baggage, its you know history, yeah, and I was already a permanent resident here, I belonged here, and, and to me it was like what does that mean? What does it mean to belong to a place you don't know?

Gurasis: 42:03

Yeah.

Sindh: 42:04

It's so interesting, isn't it? These pieces of paper that convey belonging and what belonging actually means are two completely different things.

Gurasis: 42:12

Yeah, I think it's also because you were just done, with consistent paperwork back and forth, the conversations and the complications and the requirements and this updating your, your status each time you were just done and then coming to the point where a card defines that you are a permanent resident in Canada and don't have to anything else for another five years minimum.

Sindh: 42:38

so I think maybe that's why you felt a little bit more belonged, way before you even reached here potentially, I think it was a um, identity and feeling wise sort of confusing it was that I have stability now, right and now I can do the hard work of building my connections, my understanding, my awareness of what Canada is as a country. How can I contribute? How can I figure out what the country is about? It's hard to do that when you don't have the solidity of legal status.

Gurasis: 43:16

Yeah, absolutely.

Sindh: 43:17

It's hard to do that If you have to keep fighting for that, how do you build that sense of belonging?

Gurasis: 43:24

Yeah, and would you say that's also the reason you end up doing that ritual that you have, which you, despite living in the US for like almost a decade living in multiple houses, you never did that ritual. Please share with the listeners what the ritual is and what does it signify.

Sindh: 43:50

It's amazing how many things strike you. Only in hindsight it's almost silly. You know, when we moved to canada we took up residence in a rental apartment. It was probably the fifth, eighth, seventh rental apartment that I had lived in in my life. But when we came to Canada we did a small housewarming ceremony that we do in in um, our culture I say our because it's me and my husband you put a small container of milk and you boil it, and the boiling of the milk is considered symbolic of prosperity, and that's the way you usher in prosperity into your new home. It is so simple. There's nothing, a whole lot involved in that. And yet I never did it in any of the other rental homes that I had lived in in the US. It just never occurred to me, I never felt like doing it and I never did it. And in Canada it's not like it was our own place and I did do it, and it wasn't until much later that I contemplated why that was the case.

Sindh: 45:06

It's because I felt finally, that this is a place where I can live on my own terms. That's the power of just having that solid legal foundation.

Sindh: 45:15

Absolutely, absolutely, and I believe, with that boiled milk you had to make something to eat or drink. How does that work? Yeah, so you boil the milk and, using that boiled milk, you consume some beverage made with that milk to sort of share in that blessing. You either make tea or coffee or some beverage out of that and you share it with yourself and whoever else is present. So if, if somebody else has decided to join your house warming, you share with them as well. It's a. It's a really beautiful, uh, really small uh ceremony, but yeah, there's, there's a lot of beauty in it yeah, absolutely.

Gurasis: 45:52

The beauty is always in these tiny things. I love that. Thank you for sharing with us. Yeah, yeah, someone who has lived in, you know, two north american countries tell us, like, what difference in the culture you have noticed. That's something that people might not know. There's something that striked you a lot that, oh my god, this is how canada is.

Sindh: 46:15

This was nothing close to what we experienced in the us, or the vice versa, anything there's lots of things I think in Canada that I wasn't really prepared for or that I didn't know of. One thing I didn't know of is Canada's wholesale embrace of multilingualism, and I don't just mean French and English, I really do mean multilingualism, absolutely. Just the other day I was walking from a metro station to meet somebody at a restaurant and on the way I must have heard at least four or five different languages on the short walk from the metro station to that restaurant. And that was really exciting for me, that we have a city that I live in, toronto, that is so thriving, and that you're encouraged to speak different languages on the streets. People seem to do it without any concern for being called out or that they're concerned about, you know, kind of signaling themselves as being others. You know not from here, that concern of being othered is very real for immigrants. That is something that is truly delightful, just delightful about Canada, I have to say.

Sindh: 47:40

The other things I noticed about Canada is that I think the understanding of what it means to be a well-fitting immigrant in Canada is different. To be Canadian, I don't think, requires for you to give up aspects of your native culture that you find valuable. You know I don't think anybody thinks that you cannot be Canadian if you really value eating Indian food or eat Indian food regularly or espouse Indian values, right, that thing really like. I think I take issue with the melting pot idea that many countries espouse of immigrant integration Because by definition a melting pot sort of requires you to give up aspects of yourself to become part of a greater whole. I think I like the Canada idea of being more like a salad bowl. You can all coexist but be yourself. You don't have to lose yourself to the whole but you can be yourself and contribute to a greater whole. I like that. I like that ethos that canada has and I hope we can hold on to that.

Gurasis: 48:56

Yeah, I absolutely love that. That's a very, very amazing way to perspective to see things. You know like, actually we're right, the melting point is melting pot. Saying melting pot is more like hey, like you're kind of like giving away your percentage of yourself, but I like this being that salad and everybody's the individual ingredient and making this like a beautiful mix. So, yeah, that's, that's a great way to say it.

Sindh: 49:18

These are the things that I feel like I appreciate about Canada. Another thing although I don't think it's cultural, maybe it is Canadian media carries more immigrant stories by far and away Immigrant issues, immigrant stories, you know, even policy issues and things like that than American media, and that's probably because the government prioritizes immigration. It's seen as a nation building activity. In the US, the positioning of immigration as an issue is very different. So I've noticed that US media tends not to speak about skilled immigrant issues quite so eloquently and it certainly doesn't share immigrant stories nearly as much. So one of the first things I was exposed to in Canada was the CBC first person series and that's how I got very interested in that series and I loved reading it when I first came. It made me feel so seen, so understood that wow, there is space for these stories in just mainstream media.

Sindh: 50:33

That there's an appetite for this. That was very encouraging.

Gurasis: 50:37

Yeah, I personally also loved that story and the series as well. That's how I got to learn more about you and your journey. So, speaking of that that also further, I believe led you to start your own newsletter. You call it this immigrant life and you say that stories aren't just about giving people new information. It is also about making people seen at a time when their problems may make them feel utterly isolated. So tell us a little bit more about your newsletter, and where can people find it?

Sindh: 51:08

I have my newsletter, this Immigrant Life on Substack. Through that I share stories and not just stories a lot of information. Increasingly, I've been writing about immigration to Canada because I see a gap in that space. There's not a lot of great information out there with regard to immigrating to Canada and there's a fair bit of misunderstanding that coming to Canada is really easy and that PR is very straightforward. But I try always to weave in stories and experiences, mostly because I think whenever you're going through something you tend to go inwards and that makes you feel isolated, even if there are thousands of others going through exactly the same thing.

Sindh: 51:57

You tend to find yourself, you know, lonely in that space and I think when I was going through some of this stuff, it would have really helped me to read stories about other people that were, say, not able to work, that had hard won careers that they were not happy to let go of, and what were they doing? How did they have ideas on how, to you know, deal with this? What solutions did they come up with? It would have helped me to hear some of that. Would I have followed all that advice? Maybe not, but it helps not to feel like you're the only one under the weight of these rocks. That was the idea behind both Be the Legal, the podcast that tried to explain US immigration, the very short lived podcast. I should add kudos to you for doing this, having done it first hand. It's really hard, really difficult, to put podcasts out consistently. And now this Immigrant Life, which is the Substack newsletter.

Gurasis: 53:00

I just want to mention it to my listeners. I've shared it with you also. Sindhu, I have personally loved all your articles. They are like I told you they were like so fun and such like nicely. You have thread things the information and the personal anecdotes within it. That's what I think it makes them unique and I highly highly encourage to all my listeners to definitely check that, and I'll put the link to that in the show notes.

Sindh: 53:25

Thank you, I so appreciate it. Like I said, hearing from another fellow creator or writer that your writing is something they resonated with is the best. It's right up there on the hierarchy of compliments right up there on the hierarchy of compliments.

Gurasis: 53:42

So, speaking of those articles, obviously there was this one that really particularly, you know, caught my eye because that has been a regular chatter about it within media, on the internet, everywhere you see, whether to come to Canada or not, what is it Canada like, is the right time to come, etc. Etc. And there was this one article you wrote which is called the immigrating to canada the real talk, and there were a couple of points I think you mentioned which would be important for somebody who is aspiring to come to canada or is already in canada or somebody just want to learn more about canada. And I'd like to go like point by point. And the first point was know what you want before coming.

Sindh: 54:20

I think the main thing that one has to do when they're trying to immigrate is ask themselves why they're doing it. There are many reasons and many good reasons to immigrate. You can immigrate to join your family. You can immigrate because you want to get great exposure in tech. You can immigrate to start a new business in a new geography. Or you can immigrate to earn well, get financial security and go back home. But the thing is, one country will not satisfy all these requirements. You need to know and pick your country based on your requirement. If you want to work at the cutting edge of technology, canada is probably not for you, depending on the technology right.

Sindh: 55:10

If you're looking for a cutting edge stem career, silicon valley is probably the place for you absolutely but if you're looking for a place where the immigration system is going to give you a fair shot at least a fair shot and you're looking to settle somewhat long term, you do need to consider that, and maybe those are the people for whom Canada will work out. Canada will work out. That is the thing that I talk about with defining what is it that you want out of this immigrant experience. It's very important to start with. That place I just want to go is not a good place to start.

Gurasis: 55:51

Absolutely, yeah, it's like you know. Like you also mentioned, you cannot assess if Canada is a good fit for you if you don't know what you actually want. So that's for sure. Keeping in mind, yeah, okay. And the second point was you know, speak to others like you yeah.

Sindh: 56:06

So I call this the future you sort of conversation, right. So I'm fairly active on places like linkedin and people will ask me whether there are enough project management jobs in can or whether there are enough IT jobs in Canada. The only answer I can give to that is I don't know. I work in medical device quality assurance, which is half a world away from project management or IT. I just don't know. So there are two things I would recommend people do.

Sindh: 56:40

One is to look for data right and I have shared recently on LinkedIn some resources and I will be writing a post on this soon to find actual Government of Canada data on what sectors have labour shortages, what sectors are prevalent in what provinces, what sectors have experienced, you know, dips in employment. All of this data is available out there for free. Look at that. So that's one. But data is not enough. Data doesn't tell a story. Data will not tell you how difficult it is to get your first job, right. People will tell you that, yeah. So talk to somebody who is in your field, has immigrated and found a job in your field relatively recently, right. Don't talk to somebody that came 15 years back.

Sindh: 57:30

It was a very different situation back then so this is the part where I talk about like, find a future you and talk to them, and people on linkedin are very approachable, so definitely use that as a resource yeah, yeah, definitely.

Gurasis: 57:44

I think I've covered this multiple times on the podcast that we do hesitate to reach out, but people are very, very helpful in canada on linkedin. Just drop them a message, they'll definitely reach out to. Yeah, and the next, obviously, the issues you said know the big issues that might impact your life and some. Some of the issues you've mentioned is healthcare and housing.

Sindh: 58:04

I think people need to get away from this idea that if they search hard enough, they will find the perfect place for them. It doesn't exist. The choices that you have is to go to a country that has problems that you can work with Right is to go to a country that has problems that you can work with right. So let's say you're the kind of person that is good at investing. You are not somebody that wants to buy a house and settle down. You're okay with renting, just as long as you are able to invest all that money and, you know, get a good return and that's the life you want to lead. Canada is probably quite good for you because housing is a problem, um, and maybe you have a remote job so you don't need to live in. You know the urban core and maybe that is workable for you. But if you're looking for a situation where you are trying to dodge problems, problems will eventually find you. Yeah, there is no plan that will keep dodging problems. Good plans work with problems. They don't work around them right. Like I said, the problem will eventually find you. Now, health care and housing are the big problems in canada.

Sindh: 59:16

The third one we can probably add to this is credentialing. So if you're in a job that requires getting a license or being licensed in Canada, it can take a long time to study and get that license and it can involve considerable expenditure. So that's something to consider too. Understand the issues of the country that you're going to by talking to people, by reading up about them, so that you don't get overwhelmed with them, right? Every country has issues. There's no such thing as a perfect country, but at least you'll know what they are. Isn't it better to find out that your career takes two years of credentialing before you move somewhere, right? Rather than find out six months after you got there? I think that's important to go clear ride, yeah.

Gurasis: 1:00:03

Wow, you mentioned like a couple of things here, but I'll just highlight two. One, you said the perfect place doesn't exist and second, you said the good plans work well, even around the problems. So I love these both and the another one. Obviously, you know we discussed briefly as well earlier the corporate vacation structure which assume that our families here. They don't know that sometimes you have to travel halfway around the world and two weeks are just not enough for an immigrant sometimes, and I think you were very passionate about the same topic as well, so please talk a little bit more about that.

Sindh: 1:00:35

I think, gradually, countries in the west that take in a lot of immigrants will have to understand that their love of immigration is not the same as actually having accommodation for immigrants. We haven't gotten there yet. So an example of this is the corporate vacation structure. The corporate vacation structure when you have people whose families are in the same country and they can visit them for, say, christmas and Thanksgiving and things like that. That's one thing. But to benefit from people who are coming from across the world, bringing their skills and experience and all that, but To somehow just not consider those elements in your policies, both at the country level, at the company level, at all levels, is just not okay. I think past a point.

Sindh: 1:01:29

A great example of this in the US, for example, is when people lose their jobs, when they're laid off. They're given nice severance packages in big companies and they're usually fairly generous. But frankly, what an employee on a visa needs is not money. Usually what they need is time, because in 60 days they will need to find a job and put in their visa paperwork, otherwise they're out. The fact that very few companies offer to keep their employees on the payroll instead of just giving them a severance packet and and getting them out the door is frankly, surprising, given the number of immigrants that work in the us. Even this level of consideration in corporate policy making has not started yet on a widespread basis. This is the sort of thing I talk about when I say that a lot of these countries seem to accept immigration, they seem to love diversity, they seem to love all these ideas, but that has not translated into accommodation for the immigrants themselves yeah, absolutely.

Gurasis: 1:02:36

This is such a solid point and something which I think we as immigrants have been discussing, even within my groups, friends' groups. We all discuss about the same thing that two weeks are just not enough and some sort of policy I hope so at least the conversation starts in the coming year, at least initiates that sort of conversation and it actually reflects in the decision and the policies that they end up making.

Sindh: 1:02:58

Yeah, hopefully I hope so. Some companies are starting to do um undefined uh vacations, right like they're open-ended unlimited ones. Yes yeah, um, and of course, unlimited is is theoretical, right, obviously there's. There's some idea of appropriate vacation, but I hope there's some flexibility there for people who have senior care obligations in other countries, for example. So their parents live there. Uh, they don't just go there to visit, they also have senior care obligations in another country. That doesn't just go away.

Gurasis: 1:03:34

Right, that's a part of life okay, so now, before we get into the final segment, I have included this new segment in this season. I called it know your host, where I give my guests an opportunity to ask me any questions you might have. So go for it oh, I love that.

Gurasis: 1:03:55

I want to know what you think makes a good podcast guest for your podcast specifically you know one thing I have said since I started this podcast that for me there is no perfect guest and there is, like, no perfect story. I feel like every story is unique to themselves and there is always something or the other thing that you can learn from everybody. I I know I remember in the beginning of my journey, uh, fortunately, some people who reached out to me wanted to be part of the podcast and come there as a guest. They have asked me that uh, we hope that you consider us, and I've told them. They said we don't know, there's something extraordinary about my story that you'd like to highlight, and I've told them the same Every story is extraordinary in their own way and I am nobody to define that your story is perfect or you are a perfect guest for me.

Gurasis: 1:04:49

No, because, for example, if you have a certain lesson or you have, like, a certain experience, maybe it might not be beneficial to me or it might not relate with me, but I'm sure there is somebody. You know the people I'm saying millions, let's just say I'm manifesting that the millions of people who are listening to this podcast it there might be like one person who might resonate with that and might learn from it. So I think short answer to your question is for me, no, every story is unique in themselves and there is no perfect answer to it.

Sindh: 1:05:26

You know, when you reached out to me, I was very curious about how you got to create this podcast. Every podcast has a story, right? There's a reason people do this much work to put out these kinds of stories. What was the story behind my thick accent?

Gurasis: 1:05:47

well, you know one thing which I have mentioned a couple of times on the podcast also I was working in this market research company and I was interviewing somebody over the phone and this man in between the conversation said that oh my god, you have such a thick indian accent. And to which I replied sir, you also have a thick canadian accent. So for some reason that, just because you know that's what we have, it was just one of those days I'm not in my element, I'm just tired, I'm hungry and you know. And when he said that to me, I said, sir, you also have a thick Canadian accent, and he just giggled, just like you, and he hung up. So for some reason, that name just stayed with me.

Gurasis: 1:06:29

Not that I wanted to start a podcast, but you know, a few months after that, I started speaking to people on the phone who were international students, the people basically interviewing people on behalf of the ontario's ministry of education, the people who have recently graduated. We're speaking to them and everybody's and I think everybody I was speaking to I was a 90 percent of them was at least cribbing about their program and not being able to find a job, and I was actually in similar situation at that time. That's why I was doing that call center job, because I had nothing else to do and I was not getting any response from anybody. So at one point I was like, okay, these guys need help, and so do I. So, instead of, like me, reinventing the wheel, let's just collaborate with this incredible people just like yourself who are ready to lend a helping hand to individuals and, like you said, you know, reach out to people or talk to your future self. Exactly, I also wanted at some point, somebody like me who would have these conversations, have this kind of podcast from which I can learn, because there was nothing like this when I came to Canada five years ago. So maybe I'm creating this for my past, gurus, somebody, the future, the new people who are coming to Canada.

Gurasis: 1:07:47

You know, I am just want to lend a helping hand if they can listen to these stories and feel that, hey, we are not alone to this. You know, if your experience is not validated, you are not alone. If you're not getting a response from anybody anybody you are not alone. And if they question your identity or if they question your accent or if they question that, why is english so good you are not alone it. We all have been through that. And if he or she can really dodge that and tackle that and have the blinders towards all these discrimination and hate comments, you can too. So that's why my whole purpose is to tell people that, hey, if he or she can do it, you can do it as well. All knowledge, just a little bit of time, little bit of consistency and patience, for sure, yeah amazing.

Sindh: 1:08:32

I I really like, uh, that, that rebuttal that you had the presence of mind to give. I. I think a lot of people when they hear that they feel so defensive, you know, they suddenly become very, they seize up, they feel like they're not putting their best foot forward and it can make you very defensive. And you know, one of the interesting things that I've seen I don't know if you've noticed this and I'd be curious to see what your experience has been for us people in our generation growing up, when we were told that we didn't speak great English or something like that, we were defensive. But I think the generation now is not like that. They're a lot more no, no, we're not going to hear that from you and and by you. They're not as um as worshipping of the west as as we, I think, were. We looked at them with so much awe not worshipping, but awe, um and now it's not like that as much anymore.

Gurasis: 1:09:37

There's more self-confidence in in that generation of today than we had at their age yeah, I think that I think one reason of that could also be the exposure and the right examples, because back then we would have like limited examples that we see on the television, for example, you know, maybe in the films and movies, but I I think now, because of social media, you find a lot of familiar people and a lot of like familiar people with like familiar thoughts and identity, so to say, and you relate to that a little bit of more and then you feel that, okay, I'm not alone into this and there's nothing wrong with me if I speak this way or I dress this way or I act this way. There's nothing wrong with me. So I think that's why they have more confidence in themselves. I would say maybe that could be the reason.

Sindh: 1:10:26

Yeah, yeah, it's a very interesting point. I do notice this, uh, when I travel back uh home these days that, yeah, their their attitude towards um speaking English, or their personal confidence, has has increased, which is which is interesting. Absolutely, yeah, this is very enjoyable thank you.

Gurasis: 1:10:46

Any other question you have?

Sindh: 1:10:51

I have lots of questions. You shouldn't do this to me. I will ask you lots of questions, just one more. Just one more is allowed just one more what has been your experience living in montreal, the immigrant experience living in montreal specifically?

Gurasis: 1:11:08

okay, well, definitely, I think initially it was hard because everything is in french, uh, but the. But the good thing is, people within the city are pretty much bilingual. It's just that to access certain governmental institutions it's very hard to go through the system because usually it's in French, and also because of the new policies that are coming up, that has made things a little bit hard. But I would say, by now, now, since it's been like five, six years, I have got used to certain things. For example, I know the, the restaurants I'm gonna go to, because even the menus are in french, right, most of them. I know that, what I want, I have my go-to order and everything.

Gurasis: 1:11:53

But as an immigrant immigrant I would say, yes, definitely. You have like less familiar faces, like, uh, comparing it to canada to to toronto, like, for example, I recently visited toronto and I had this one experience and somebody was asking me that how are you feeling in toronto? And I told them there is some sort of warmth within the city and that's solely because of the presence of our community and by that I mean the indian punjabi community as well, particularly and just being having that ability to go to these certain networking events and interacting with these people. I really feel I wish I would have had that maybe four years ago. Or I wish the people who are currently in Montreal international students, montreal they would have had that.

Gurasis: 1:12:39

That is something that was missing throughout my five, six years and because of that I have not been able to have enough Indian friends. Also, I just connected more with my local people or the other immigrants who just immigrated to Montreal. So, yeah, I would say, but all in all, it's been a learning experience. I am actually glad also, I came to this part of Canada because this, this city, is beautiful. There's a lot of diversity in its own self, which is which also kind of gives you a different perspective of things which you might not see in Toronto. I would say say so yeah, all in all, I would say it's a very enriching experience, fascinating.

Sindh: 1:13:24

Fascinating. I really am very interested in learning about the experience of people who came to Canada and, you know, settled only here, because a lot of the people that I know were in the US and people in the US talk a lot about their immigrant experience because of everything that they go through. In fact, there's this trajectory, every party, it goes exactly the same. You meet, you talk about not immigration related topics to distract yourself, then you eat and then you talk about how your visa situation is going and then it goes downhill from there. Then it ends up in how how it all sucks. That's the trajectory of every immigrant gathering in the US. If you've been there for more than about six to eight years, there's a flow, right, but here in canada, I find that's not as much the case. I think, uh, up until now, at least the pr journey has not been terrible. Um, it's getting harder, of course, uh, but yeah, it's, it's certainly different.

Gurasis: 1:14:41

Now, Sindhu, we are in the final segment of the podcast. I call it Beneath the Accent because we are knowing each other beneath the accent. I'm going to ask a couple of questions. You can answer them in one word or a sentence or howsoever you feel like. The idea is just to know more about you. So ready, so first the classic question what advice would you give to Sindhu, who is in the initial months of landing in Canada?

Sindh: 1:15:04

It is going to take longer than you think to find your feet here, but it's okay, you'll be fine.

Gurasis: 1:15:13

Okay, and what advice would you give to your younger self, and at what age?

Sindh: 1:15:19

Nothing. I think it's fine. Young people should just do their thing I like that.

Gurasis: 1:15:28

Okay, describe a moment when you experienced a significant cultural difference that surprised you, whether in the us or in canada I think I was surprised at how bad Canadians are at salesmanship, okay, compared to the Americans.

Sindh: 1:15:45

Oh, okay, really terrible. In a funny way.

Gurasis: 1:15:50

Okay. Do you have any instance to share?

Sindh: 1:15:54

Yeah, like, for example, the Canadian banking industry. They act like your mom, like you can't have a credit card more than $5,000 when you arrive, because what if you can't pay it In the US? It's like here go, and if you can't pay it, we'll catch you with 23% interest later. It's a much more risk taking economy in the US compared to Canada. Canada is very, very conservative and careful and there's a lot of guardrails right. The us is a lot freer okay, very interesting.

Gurasis: 1:16:28

Okay. What's this one dish from your home country that always brings you comfort and nostalgia? Dosas, homemade, okay. Do you have any funny story related to misunderstanding around the accent or the english?

Sindh: 1:16:48

yeah. So I once had a question about my taxes in the us and I called the IRS hotline for it, and this person on the other side had this strange accent I can't even place what accent that was and I was baffled that they would choose somebody with an unintelligible accent to talk about a topic that is difficult to understand even in the most, you know, understandable accent, and after he and I I think he couldn't understand what I was saying either. After going a little bit back and forth, we just hung up like okay, this is not working so okay, what's your favorite cultural festival or celebration in canada and how do you usually celebrate?

Sindh: 1:17:46

it. Do you mean a canadian event exactly? Honestly, I haven't partaken in a lot of canadian events yet. I want to uh, but I've not actually had the chance. The thing I want to do is go to Ottawa on the 1st of July, on Canada Day. I've heard it's very interesting and lively, so I do want to do that okay, interesting.

Gurasis: 1:18:12

Another festival I've always heard about people talking is on the podcast is Thanksgiving. They said that is something that they have adopted and they have really celebrated in their family.

Sindh: 1:18:23

Ah, how nice, that's a good idea.

Gurasis: 1:18:25

Share a quick tip for fellow immigrants trying to adjust in a new country.

Sindh: 1:18:31

Really open up. You chose to come here because you wanted exposure. You wanted to be in a country that is not your own, embrace it. If you wanted to live in a country that is not your own, embrace it. If you wanted to live exactly like how you lived there, you could have done it there for much lower rent and, absolutely, you know, with a lot of help raising your children and doing your dishes and your clothes and everything. So please, embrace life beyond just what you would have lived in your country.

Gurasis: 1:19:02

Yeah, definitely, definitely the best advice. Okay, tell us about your first friend that you made in Canada and how did you meet them?

Sindh: 1:19:11

This is an interesting story. So I met them through a meetup and they have a very retiring personality. He's very self-conscious, very quiet, but when you talk to them they really open up once they know you. And um, then we decided together both of us enjoy writing. So we joined another meetup which was a writer's uh, you know kind of collective. You get together on certain nights of the week and write and gradually I got to know them well and it was incredible that through a meetup you could have a relationship that is actually meaningful and interesting and deep. So that was my first real friendship in Canada.

Sindh: 1:20:00

Should a moment when being an immigrant made you feel exceptionally proud or accomplished, I think there was this colleague that I had, and this was at a time where immigration was difficult.

Sindh: 1:20:16

I was still working, In fact the worst was yet to come but I didn't know at that time and she was quite close to me, so I used to share a lot with her. And she once said you should really write a book about all these experiences. And I said oh, my God, you don't know how common this is. There's nothing remotely remarkable about what I'm telling you, it's just that maybe nobody else has told you this. It's so common. And she said well, not to me and not to so many Americans, I don't think you realize how exceptional it is what you folks go through and how you persevere through it. And in that moment I think I looked at everything that we experienced through American eyes and through native eyes, and I was really proud in that moment for the journey that so many of us undertake, and we normalize it to an extent that we find it utterly unremarkable, but it is remarkable.

Sindh: 1:21:27

Yeah, absolutely Indeed it is and that's why this podcast exists to celebrate these stories Totally. We should remind ourselves to celebrate it once in a while.

Gurasis: 1:21:39

Yeah, absolutely yeah.

Sindh: 1:21:40

Is there something that you ate for the first time in canada, poutine, and I did not like it you're not the only one.

Gurasis: 1:21:45

Many people say that I think it's just.

Sindh: 1:21:49

Yeah, maybe it's not for me okay.

Gurasis: 1:21:54

If you had to describe yourself as any animal or any creature, what would it be and why oh?

Sindh: 1:21:59

definitely a dog. I have a hundred percent dog personality. I think, okay, I think I'm very attuned to the, the people that are immediately around me. Uh, it impacts me a lot if they're not doing well, um and uh, yeah, very much a dog personality, okay if you could have any superpower, what would it be?

Sindh: 1:22:24

wow, that's a great question. I haven't thought about it. There are so many low-hanging fruit just everywhere across the world in um government policy. This has to be the most boring answer any of your guests have given you. I realize that I would fix those Just really low-hanging fruit. That would make so many lives better.

Gurasis: 1:22:50

Well, it might be boring, but it'd be very, very beneficial.

Sindh: 1:22:53

Yes.

Gurasis: 1:22:53

So please go for it.

Sindh: 1:22:55

Yes, let's do it.

Gurasis: 1:22:57

If you had to create this one law that everybody has to follow, what would it be?

Sindh: 1:23:02

just not getting too offended by everything all the time. You have got to understand and give space for other people to express themselves. There is a loss when people are thinking too hard about what they're saying. Not online. I'm not suggesting that everybody should just say hateful, terrible things, but there are certain niche ideas that may sound wacky but I think they should be expressed, because a lot of ideas before their time sound just bananas, but they there should still be room for it to be expressed yeah, absolutely.

Gurasis: 1:23:49

I love that to describe canada in one word or a sentence resisting definition.

Sindh: 1:24:00

I love that about. Canada. I love that it is so hard to define what it is to be a Canadian and what is Canada like culturally. It's so fuzzy, and that fuzziness, I think, is what makes it uniquely inclusive wow, I love that.

Gurasis: 1:24:21

You know, it's amazing how, every time, I get such a mind-boggling answer every time, because this is, if you really think about it, it's true what you said, it's so true. And somebody who said on the podcast that it's like a, a quilt with different patches on it and each patch defines a certain culture that they bring along with it, that's also mind-boggling in its own way. So I'm just always amazed how guests come up with their own eye, with their own, you know whatever they have witnessed throughout their journey and how they define it. So I love that.

Sindh: 1:24:54

It's a very nice question. It's a very nice question. I'm sure a lot of thought went into it.

Gurasis: 1:24:59

It's a very nice question so, finally, if you could leave me with one piece of advice, what would it be?

Sindh: 1:25:04

I think you put so much thought into the structure of your podcast and everything. Um, honestly, I was really surprised at how much background work you're done. Reading through the sub stack and the article and everything, um, honestly, I I can't think of anything. The only thing that I would say to anybody hosting a podcast is to make it as free, flowing as possible while still following a structure. It's very tricky to do right. Where digressions are, your friend, embrace digressions. It's. That's where the real conversation is.

Gurasis: 1:25:46

Okay, perfect. Thank you for your kind words.

Sindh: 1:25:48

So finally, how would you describe your experience of being on the podcast. Then we first spoke just to get to know one another. I really enjoyed the perspective that you shared of why you wanted these stories to be told and just the idea that you wanted a diversity of voices. I saw a lot of overlap between the way we thought about these things and the podcast has totally over delivered on on that. I really enjoyed it. The fun elements are really enjoyable, so great idea with doing that in in season two and I'm very fortunate to have been part of this season. Really enjoyed the, the fun parts, uh, for sure perfect, awesome.

Gurasis: 1:26:30

Very glad to hear that. So, on that note, thank you. Thank you, sundu, for being on the podcast and adding value to my listeners. Thank you, thank you.